Florida stand your ground. Dont play stupid games

[Hatin Since 87]

perhaps you better make sure your significant others don’t break the law and increase the chances of problems then. It all really started with a self important woman using a reserved space that wasn’t for her. Next time someone breaks a law in front of you don’t say or do anything if there’s women or children involved? Whatever.

Youre right. From this day forward I will remind my wife to never drive over the speed limit, I would not want a concerned citizen to yell and scream with my 2 babies in the car and sentence me to the death penalty when I push him away from my family for going ape **** over a minor traffic citation. How dare that lady park in a spot warranting a $150 fine, and how dare her partner get upset when an armed individual confronts his family yelling about such a serious, life threatening crime

 

[mmpsteve]

This topic has sure brought the long term plinkers.

And so you're saying .....

It's Wild Turkey time now, or I'd have a lot more to say about this

 

[Route 45]

Youre right. From this day forward I will remind my wife to never drive over the speed limit, I would not want a concerned citizen to yell and scream with my 2 babies in the car and sentence me to the death penalty when I push him away from my family for going ape **** over a minor traffic citation. How dare that lady park in a spot warranting a $150 fine, and how dare her partner get upset when an armed individual confronts his family yelling about such a serious, life threatening crime

I hear they are looking to change the law to "Stand Your Ground, Then Mutilate The Corpse" for such heinous acts as illegal parking and littering.

 

[Vigilant]

I hope the day never comes when I need to shoot somebody. That said, I, personally, refuse to take the life of another human being unless I without a doubt feel it is life or death. I’ve had my ass kicked before, and I’m sure I will again some day, I’m a big boy and I can take that. Some of my friends became my friends this way. I would not feel as if I’m in a deadly situation by a simple push. I will clear it up tho, if I’m with my family, and somebody verbally makes it known they want me dead, then assaults me or my loved ones and I feel there is no other option, I will not think twice about defending our lives. Each situation is different depending on the individual. I think it was rhino that said a shove to the ground could be potentially deadly for him, so what is life threatening to one individual may not be to another, and that individual should deal with a threat how they determine necessary to defend their own life. My opinion of course, this guy was looking for a reason to push peoples buttons and provoke a situation that should’ve been dealt with by calling someone with the responsibility, and authority to do so.

Just so you know, the difference between an ass kicking and being beaten to death isn’t a finite line. One good hit and it’s possible for lights out!

 

[rhino]

My standards? You don't want to be able to decide whether you should shoot before 2 Mississippi ?

Your statement suggested that 1.5-2 seconds is the correct amount of time to make such decisions. I don't know of any training that leads someone to being able to make a shoot/no-shoot decision in a specific amount of time that would cover every possible circumstance. My ignorance suggests that my training does not meet your standard of knowing whether or not shoot in 1.5-2 seconds.

In my world, the amount of time it takes to make a critical decision is dependent on the circumstances, not an arbitrary number that sounds reasonable to someone watching a video. In some situations, it's very possible that such a decision could and would be made in much under 1.5 seconds for some people who can process information quickly. In others, such as a hostage situation where you have an emotional involvement with the person who is the hostage, the decision to shoot could ultimately take significantly longer than 2 seconds or less, again depending on the specific circumstances.

My point returns to the opinion that the guy in the video was "just pushed" as if it were a nothing thing where he could just pop right back up, thinking clearly, and make a life-changing decision in the time frame that suits the viewers of the video. That may not be the case and in the absence of additional information, I'm not willing to accept the assertion of someone watching the video that the person who had just been pushed down to the ground had plenty of time to process whether the guy who pushed him remained a threat or not and still have enough time for his brain to stop his finger. Again, I point to people getting shot in the back after they have turned and started to run away in cases where the shooter was not intentionally shooting them in the back and retreating, but the decision had been made to shoot and their brain could not stop the action of pressing the trigger in time.

There is more gray area here than some are willing to acknowledge. There are more questions to be asked and answered than some seem willing to understand or acknowledge. Whether or not he should or should not have shot is one question. Whether or not he had time to make the decision is another question, with a definitive answer not in evidence (yet). Whether or not he perceived the threat to be ongoing and then had time to stop himself from shooting by the time it was apparent the guy was retreating is a question that has to be addressed and answered as fully as possible, yet it doesn't seem to matter much to those who fully understand everything that happened in this specific situation from watching the video.

 

[GREEN607]

All I have to go on is the video and the accounts provided by the New York posts. So Man gets shot after assaulting a older man arguing with the younger man's wife, right? Next the video shows the older man on the ground and reaching for something. The older man pulls out a hand gun and points it at the
younger man that just assaulted him, next thing you know the older man shoots the assailant, right? So is that it? for all you guys that say, "IT WAS NOT" Stand your ground. Well I would have to disagree with you. The older man in question was obviously infirm in some way because he uses the handicap parking a lot. So he does have health issues. Next what about the other guy? The young man walking out with the assailant? Did the shooter also see that person walking towards him as well? Now, we have a infirm older man that has already been attacked by one younger man and now there appears to be a second man becoming part of the situation. Now, tell me how this doesn't change anything. Watch the video and then watch the second man from the door. As soon as the assault happens he exits the door and now goes towards the incident. When you only have a few seconds to make a decision you have to make one. It's easy for a "Tuesday Armchair Quarterback" to call the shots while the game is over, lets see how well you do when you're in that game at the moment. Sometimes you have to make the hard choices in what you do. Situation was bad at the beginning and to only show one side of the story, shame on you NEW YORK POST for not giving all the facts and just a liberal point of view that only shows one side and nothing more.

I believe if you watch the video again.... you'll see the Abe Vigoda guy (on the ground) shoots his weapon TWICE....two quick shots, and then after the pushee runs back inside, the Abe Vigoda guy reaches out TWICE and picks up his cases.

 

[BugI02]

perhaps you better make sure your significant others don’t break the law and increase the chances of problems then. It all really started with a self important woman using a reserved space that wasn’t for her. Next time someone breaks a law in front of you don’t say or do anything if there’s women or children involved? Whatever.

Who was being harmed? What issues were important enough to confront a stranger? Other parking was available to the "offender", but this also was true of the Handicapped Spot Avenger

It's a bit reductio, but can I unload on you for speeding, or cutting me off or some other minor vehicular offense? You're not a cop, you're a concelaed carry permit holder. IMO it is incumbent on us to demonstrate a higher level of civility because we have a higher level of responsibility - in the extreme, literally life and death

 

[BugI02]

This topic has sure brought the long term plinkers.

Objection! Not germane to the current line of questioning, prejudices debate and calls for value judgement by the jury

 

[femurphy77]

I believe if you watch the video again.... you'll see the Abe Vigoda guy (on the ground) shoots his weapon TWICE....two quick shots, and then after the pushee runs back inside, the Abe Vigoda guy reaches out TWICE and picks up his cases.

He reloads?

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

Who was being harmed? What issues were important enough to confront a stranger? Other parking was available to the "offender", but this also was true of the Handicapped Spot Avenger

It's a bit reductio, but can I unload on you for speeding, or cutting me off or some other minor vehicular offense? You're not a cop, you're a concelaed carry permit holder. IMO it is incumbent on us to demonstrate a higher level of civility because we have a higher level of responsibility - in the extreme, literally life and death

He didn't get shot for parking in a handicapped spot. He got shot because he physically assaulted someome.

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

He reloads?

 

[GREEN607]

He reloads?

Probably not.

I think he's just cleaning up, out of respect for the next shooter.

 

[Route 45]

I'm pleasantly surprised that this thread has gone almost 300 posts without anyone really mentioning race as a major factor.

Alas, who didn't see this coming?

https://www.tampabay.com/news/publi...s-Trayvon-Martin-attorney-Ben-Crump_170330531

 

[BugI02]

He didn't get shot for parking in a handicapped spot. He got shot because he physically assaulted someome.

The song, to a certain extent, is affected by where you choose to put the needle down on the record

To me, he got shot because the shooter got involved in something that realistically should not concern him. Shooter was not defending himself or others when he confronted the woman. The guy that stopped the rounds could arguably be defending his loved ones. I wouldn't want to be defending that shoot either before a jury or before The Lord. YMMV

 

[BugI02]

Probably not.

I think he's just cleaning up, out of respect for the next shooter.

Hand loader, maybe?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Just so you know, the difference between an ass kicking and being beaten to death isn’t a finite line. One good hit and it’s possible for lights out!

Totally agree and really good point. That’s why I said each situation is different and depends on the individual. Not that unexpected things like this can’t happen, but if a 24 year old is being assaulted by a 74 year old, the 24 year old should be able to evaluate a potential for death and decide if he perceives it to be life threatening before automatically resorting to deadly force to thwart and attack. Now if the roles are reversed, the 74 year old man would probably need to resort to deadly force as a first line of defense, as he’s probably more likely to be at a higher risk of fatality from a punch to the head. But again, each situation is for the individual to know their own health, strengths, and limits and let that be the deciding factor in use of deadly force. My opinion of course.

 

[Vigilant]

Just google knockout game deaths, several died with one sucker punch (not so unlike the sucker shove that precipitated the guy getting dead) several of the dead were young otherwise healthy individuals. This whole situation is a **** sammich, both these guys took a bite, one swallowed too much!

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

To say that this shooting was caused by a woman's improper parking is almost like saying that the L.A. riots were caused by a man exceeding the speed limit.

 

[Alpo]

Hand loader, maybe?

Looked to me like he was placing his weapon on the ground, as is taught in many Florida CCW classes. Then, he thought better of it and eventually put it on the hood of the vehicle.

The video isn't all that clear, but that is what I surmise from what I saw.

 

[REAL2ALL1]

Lol, The woman driving the car wasn't pushed, punched, or shot. The Assailant was and that is where the threat was contained. I just made a observation about the second man, I can't prove he was going into the situation anymore than you all out there can prove he wasn't. 47 years of age isn't that old but is he young enough to tangle with not only one but maybe two twenty year olds? We don't know because it seems that the second party took off when he saw that the tables have been turned. Bad situation from the beginning. To be pushed so hard that you end up about 6 to eight feet from where you were standing and then just staying on the ground for what seemed like an eternity on the pavement, trying to gather your thoughts and then get up. Nice, There was no need to make this a physical altercation, was there? The video is what it is. That is why there would be no charges filed against him I do believe. You can be charged for breaking your own property in your own home and be cited with a domestic violence charge, for something so simple as breaking a plastic hanger. Then have your rights to own a firearm stripped away by a judge. Now it's okay to throw people to ground violently? Then expect no consequences for those actions. There are plenty of people that are sick right now that are many years younger than 47. You all know that, and that makes them targets for predators. One minutes he's talking to someone about something the next minute he's pushed to the ground. Really??? Wow... Well first rule in any situation. Don't start something there won't be something. Bad situation all around.