Flag flying in "distress"

[ATF Consumer]

Yes, I wasn't necessarily speaking directly about the current situation, although it is a part of my point...you are correct that we are just the foot soldiers and don't fully know or understand all of the reasons we are involved in it. Agreed to disagree.

And thank you to all who served in past and present...We are all patriots

 

[mikea46996]

Guys!!!!!!!!!!!

Please this has degraded into a entirely different beast then what I had planned.

Like I said I fully support our brave men and women who has and currently are serving, If I didn't have an almost life ending motorcylce accident at 18 I was 4 days away drom leaving for Fort Bennings for basic in 93'

My father and both grandfathers are vets I fully stand behind our guys and gals!!!!!

Mods if this thread continues to go way off topic and turns into the current debate over our military and foreign wars please close it!!!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I'm a Navy verteran...

Tell me which wars our men and women died for other than the Revolutionary War to protect OUR American freedom?

So, WWII was not for our freedom? We should have done nothing after the attacks on Pearl Harbor? Oh not to mention with Germanies technology, they would have become a biger threat. Or how about the Cold War. Or maybe the Cubin Missle Crisis? Yes we may have not gone to actual war, but our Military stoped the threats. Korea, and Vietnam was supposed to stop the spread of Communisism, which I agree failed misserbly. I also do not agree with the current war. On the other hand I "RESPECT AND HONOR ALL THOSE WHO SERVE" They do not pick their missions, or where they go. They follow orders, you being a vet you should know that. To fly the AMERICAN ENSIGN upside down is disrespectful to the flag, and to our service men and women. If I ever saw someone do so, I would probably kick their ass.

 

[ATF Consumer]

So, WWII was not for our freedom? We should have done nothing after the attacks on Pearl Harbor? Oh not to mention with Germanies technology, they would have become a biger threat. Or how about the Cold War. Or maybe the Cubin Missle Crisis? Yes we may have not gone to actual war, but our Military stoped the threats. Korea, and Vietnam was supposed to stop the spread of Communisism, which I agree failed misserbly. I also do not agree with the current war. On the other hand I "RESPECT AND HONOR ALL THOSE WHO SERVE" They do not pick their missions, or where they go. They follow orders, you being a vet you should know that. To fly the AMERICAN ENSIGN upside down is disrespectful to the flag, and to our service men and women. If I ever saw someone do so, I would probably kick their ass.

Here is one explanation on Pearl Harbor...

[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]Why did Japan attack us?[/SIZE][/FONT]


[SIZE=+2][FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]Posted: December 11, 2001[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1:00 am Eastern[/SIZE][/FONT]




[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Palatino,]By Patrick J. Buchanan[/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,][SIZE=-1]Creators Syndicate, Inc. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Palatino,]Editor's note: WorldNetDaily is pleased to announce that both autographed and unautographed copies of Patrick Buchanan's latest book, "The Death of the West," an expos? of how immigration invasions are endangering America are now available at WorldNetDaily's online store![/FONT]


[FONT=Palatino,]Of all the days that will "live in infamy" in American history, two stand out: Sept. 11, 2001, and Dec. 7, 1941. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]But why did Japan, with a 10th of our industrial power, launch a sneak attack on the U.S. fleet at Pearl Harbor, an act of state terror that must ignite a war to the death it could not win? Were they insane? No, the Japanese were desperate. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]To understand why Japan lashed out, we must go back to World War I. Japan had been our ally. But when she tried to collect her share of the booty at Versailles, she ran into an obdurate Woodrow Wilson. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]Wilson rejected Japan's claim to German concessions in Shantung, home of Confucius, which Japan had captured at a price in blood. Tokyo threatened a walkout if denied what she had been promised by the British. "They are not bluffing," warned Wilson, as he capitulated. "We gave them what they should not have." [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]In 1921, at the Washington Naval Conference, the United States pressured the British to end their 20-year alliance with Japan. By appeasing the Americans, the British enraged and alienated a proud nation that had been a loyal friend. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]Japan was now isolated, with Stalin's brooding empire to the north, a rising China to the east and, to the south, Western imperial powers that detested and distrusted her. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]When civil war broke out in China, Japan in 1931 occupied Manchuria as a buffer state. This was the way the Europeans had collected their empires. Yet, the West was "shocked, shocked" that Japan would embark upon a course of "aggression." Said one Japanese diplomat, "Just when we learn how to play poker, they change the game to bridge." [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]Japan now decided to create in China what the British had in India – a vast colony to exploit that would place her among the world powers. In 1937, after a clash at Marco Polo Bridge near Peking, Japan invaded and, after four years of fighting, including the horrific Rape of Nanking, Japan controlled the coastal cities, but not the interior. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]When France capitulated in June 1940, Japan moved into northern French Indochina. And though the United States had no interest there, we imposed an embargo on steel and scrap metal. After Hitler invaded Russia in June 1941, Japan moved into southern Indochina. FDR ordered all Japanese assets frozen. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]But FDR did not want to cut off oil. As he told his Cabinet on July 18, an embargo meant war, for that would force oil-starved Japan to seize the oil fields of the Dutch East Indies. But a State Department lawyer named Dean Acheson drew up the sanctions in such a way as to block any Japanese purchases of U.S. oil. By the time FDR found out, in September, he could not back down. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]Tokyo was now split between a War Party and a Peace Party, with the latter in power. Prime Minister Konoye called in Ambassador Joseph Grew and secretly offered to meet FDR in Juneau or anywhere in the Pacific. According to Grew, Konoye was willing to give up Indochina and China, except a buffer region in the north to protect her from Stalin, in return for the U.S. brokering a peace with China and opening up the oil pipeline. Konoye told Grew that Emperor Hirohito knew of his initiative and was ready to give the order for Japan's retreat. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]Fearful of a "second Munich," America spurned the offer. Konoye fell from power and was replaced by Hideki Tojo. Still, war was not inevitable. U.S. diplomats prepared to offer Japan a "modus vivendi." If Japan withdrew from southern Indochina, the United States would partially lift the oil embargo. But Chiang Kai-shek became "hysterical," and his American adviser, one Owen Lattimore, intervened to abort the proposal. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]Facing a choice between death of the empire or fighting for its life, Japan decided to seize the oil fields of the Indies. And the only force capable of interfering was the U.S. fleet that FDR had conveniently moved from San Diego out to Honolulu. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]And so Japan attacked. And so she was crushed and forced out of Vietnam, out of China, out of Manchuria. And so they fell to Stalin, Mao and Ho Chi Minh. And so it was that American boys, not Japanese boys, would die fighting Koreans, Chinese and Vietnamese to try to block the aggressions of a barbaric Asian communism. [/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino,]Now Japan is disarmed and China is an Asian giant whose military boasts of pushing the Americans back across the Pacific. Had FDR met Prince Konoye, there might have been no Pearl Harbor, no Pacific war, no Hiroshima, no Nagasaki, no Korea, no Vietnam. How many of our fathers and uncles, brothers and friends, might still be alive? "For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: 'It might have been.'" A few thoughts as the War Party pounds the drum for an all-out American war on Iraq and radical Islam. [/FONT]
[/FONT][/SIZE]

 

[public servant]

So, WWII was not for our freedom? We should have done nothing after the attacks on Pearl Harbor? Oh not to mention with Germanies technology, they would have become a biger threat. Or how about the Cold War. Or maybe the Cubin Missle Crisis? Yes we may have not gone to actual war, but our Military stoped the threats. Korea, and Vietnam was supposed to stop the spread of Communisism, which I agree failed misserbly. I also do not agree with the current war. On the other hand I "RESPECT AND HONOR ALL THOSE WHO SERVE" They do not pick their missions, or where they go. They follow orders, you being a vet you should know that. To fly the AMERICAN ENSIGN upside down is disrespectful to the flag, and to our service men and women. If I ever saw someone do so, I would probably kick their ass.

I'm sure there are 6 million dead Jews that wished the US had meddled a little sooner than they did.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I think the country is in distress due to treasonous behaviour of our elected representatives/sell outs for several terms and our POTUS has been a POS for decades now.

 

[public servant]

So you are a blind patriot?

Surely you're not suggesting that every soldier that has bravely served without hesitation in a conflict since the civil war was a "blind patriot"? With the exception of the deserters and draft dodgers...of course.

I personally think that's rather insulting to those listed below. I had always considered them heroes.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Public Servant, you are missing my point...

It has been continually stated that all of our service members who gave the ultimate sacrifice did so to protect OUR US Freedom and I simply beg to differ.
Yes, they did serve a great cause in many cases and saved the lives of many other country's people. But for it to be blindly accepted and stated as it is is clearly wrong in my perspective. I am making the point that many of our service members did die at the hand of a few decision makers from the top. Could have things been different? Absolutely. But we cannot go back and change the past...what's done is done. But we can certainly learn from the past and understand how to move forward to avoid such devastation situations.
There is no disrespect intended toward our fallen brothers. They only follow orders from above. I do think that if Wilson and FDR were not such war mongers it would have played out much differently and that is not to say that no lives would have been lost. Just like your example of the 6 million Jews that lost there lives...our efforts in that part of the war really had not much to do with protecting our US freedoms...Again, I'm not saying that all war is wrong/bad or not necessary. I do not regret that we helped defeat Germany and freed the Jews from the oppression. It is the blindly ill-informed statements that throughout time our service members gave their lives for our freedom, that is just wrong and places a generic justification for the wars.

 

[Ogre]

Here is one explanation on Pearl Harbor...
[SIZE=+2][FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT][/SIZE]

That was a good article!

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

"Ours is not to reason why , ours is but to do or die " . Politics and idealistic reasons aside once you step foot outside the gates , it's no longer about freedom or why were here or there .

It's about the man on your left and right period . You may hate the SOB but for the next few hours or days you will fight for him , as he for you .

One time or another every serviceman has had to come to an understanding with himself that by signing the contract and taking the oath , you willingly agree to give your life if need be .

Even for ideals or reasons you dont understand or agree with .

IMO , half of that understanding is that we are willing to fight for those who can't . I like to believe that ideal has alot to do with our meddling in other countries affairs , even in ways we may not understand or be privy to .

The other half , is that no matter where you are or what your job is , you agree to stand not for the military itself , not for the politicians themselves , but for the ideals , rights and freedoms that we've enjoyed since we were a country .

Not for fame or fortune , but to counted as one of many , who will at all costs protect , defend and preserve all that has ever made America the best country to be a citizen in on earth . It is the very essence of selfless service .

Even if you disagree with the methods your countrymen choose to display their displeasure with our government , your service includes them and their rights .

 

[22lr]

The flag is not a tool to be used for personal political expressions. It represents an idea, "and ideas are bulletproof MR Creedy" (to quote V), Obama can try but he will never change the Americans Ideals if we don't let him. Fly that flag high and proud today and lets remember why were still free.

 

[MoparMan]

I beg of all of you that fly the flag upside down, for the respect of all the servicemembers past, present and future, fly it in the correct manner. If you do not want to do that fly it at half staff to honor all our fallen soldiers. If you do not want to do that please take it down.

 

[public servant]

I beg of all of you that fly the flag upside down, for the respect of all the servicemembers past, present and future, fly it in the correct manner. If you do not want to do that fly it at half staff to honor all our fallen soldiers. If you do not want to do that please take it down.

The flag is not a tool to be used for personal political expressions. It represents an idea, "and ideas are bulletproof MR Creedy" (to quote V), Obama can try but he will never change the Americans Ideals if we don't let him. Fly that flag high and proud today and lets remember why were still free.

Please don't use what should be a proud symbol of honor to make a political statement. The government failed you...Old Glory did not. Hoist your Gadsden up below her to show your dissatisfaction.

Too many heroic young men and women made the ultimate sacrifice to insure the world would be a safer place. This is a symbol of what they stood for. Please don't take away from it's meaning.

 

[ATF Consumer]

public servant.

 

[BE Mike]

My take on it is that the flag should only be flown upside down to indicate that someone is really in distress. You are doing it in protest, which isn't any more appropriate that someone burning the flag or stepping on the flag in protest. Either display it properly or take it down and give it to someone who would like to display it appropriately and proudly.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Please don't use what should be a proud symbol of honor to make a political statement. The government failed you...Old Glory did not. Hoist your Gadsden up below her to show your dissatisfaction.

Too many heroic young men and women made the ultimate sacrifice to insure the world would be a safer place. This is a symbol of what they stood for. Please don't take away from it's meaning.

what he said!

 

[leveraction]

It is the
VETERAN,
not the preacher,
who has given us freedom of religion.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.

It is
the VETERAN,
not the campus organizer,
who has given us freedom to assemble.

It is
the VETERAN,
not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.


It is
the VETERAN,
not the politician,
Who has given us the right to vote.
remember

 

[U.S. Patriot]

It is the
VETERAN,
not the preacher,
who has given us freedom of religion.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.

It is
the VETERAN,
not the campus organizer,
who has given us freedom to assemble.

It is
the VETERAN,
not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.


It is
the VETERAN,
not the politician,
Who has given us the right to vote.
remember

Amen, that is the truth. I think people have a tendency to forget that. If not for Veterans, we would have no rights. This country may not be perfect. On the other hand take a look, at what goes on in the rest of the world. Makes me thankful to be an American. Makes me thankful I had the oppurtunity to serve. Just as Lee Greenwood said. I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free. And I wont forget the ones who died, who gave that right to me.

 

[wtfd661]

My take on it is that the flag should only be flown upside down to indicate that someone is really in distress. You are doing it in protest, which isn't any more appropriate that someone burning the flag or stepping on the flag in protest. Either display it properly or take it down and give it to someone who would like to display it appropriately and proudly.

+1, my feelings exactly.

I agree that Obama is a , as is most (if not all) the other politicians (on both sides of the aisle), but display the flag correctly.

 

[csaws]

option one.
not the correct way to fly it. My thoughts.

Curious as to why you feel this way?


Section 8a of the United States Flag Code states, "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

I would say that Socialism and the road to it is "extreme danger to my property and affects my life (danger to life is a gray area, unless they come to take things from me by force)