Flag flying in "distress"

[Benny]

Where is the "You're a douchbag, but no you are not disrespecting her or her country," option?

 

[Turtle]

Its the american way. Let not we forget what and who made this country great.

 

[Bigum1969]

I certainly respect your right to fly the flag how you like, but I wouldn't fly it upside down. That's just me.

 

[HICKMAN]

I didn't vote because I didn't see an option I would choose.

First of all, we are Republic, and We The People voted and BHO is the President. I don't like it, nor do many of us in here like it, but that's the way it went.

Second, only 61% of eligible voters in this Republic voted... . That is PATHETIC... Iraq managed that much WITH a war going on in it's nation.

Third, 61% is the same percentage as 2004, which means more Dems turned out this time and Repubs stayed home. Yeah, we know the IND's control the swing, but we also know more black Americans voted this time than ever before, so that also means more of us stayed home or refused to vote for McCain.

Now back to the flag, it represents We The People, of the United States of America. Not the Conservatives of America, but all of us. This country is not under attack, it's not under duress, even if we completely disagree with the way the people We The People elected to run it.

Fly your flag the way it was meant to be flown. If you want the Gadsden to join it, by all means fly it.

Bottom line boys, we ain't even scratched the surface of this iceberg yet....

 

[Joe Williams]

You are exercising protected political expression, therefore embodying the very principals that flag stands for. If that's what floats your boat, so be it. I simply choose to no longer fly a flag. The Kenyan does not meet the Constitutional requirements to be President, so our nation is no longer ruled by the Constitution the flag represents.

 

[mikea46996]

Thank you !!!!!

All of you!!!!!!

I am glad everybody voiced their opinion!!!!!

Like I posted this weekend and the forth I will fly it correctly, I love my country but I do believe we are in duress, I mean no disrespect for the brave men and women who have given life and limb so that I have this right!!!!!!!

I see both sides now and understand both sides.

One poster had said it is the same as burning the flag, this is the only post that bothered me, I am not trying to disrespect the flag, I love my country and what our flag stands for I maybe going a little extreme but I believe we are in dire need.

Again Thank You all!!!!!

 

[ATF Consumer]

I see no difference between flying the flag upside down or burning it. Both are a pathetic display of disrespect to the symbol of our nation, which many great men and women have fought and died for. Using our nation's colors as a vehicle for political protest is disgusting, IMHO. People who fly Old Glory upside down are displaying their PERSONAL distress, not the type of actual distress allowed for in US Code and the traditions of our nation.

THE FLAG CODE
Title 36, U.S.C., Chapter 10
As amended by P.L. 344, 94th Congress
Approved July 7, 1976
§ 176. Respect for flag: No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

Funny how people went ape **** over the American citizen who was flying a Mexican flag over the American flag in front of his business, but are seemingly not bothered (or are even supportive) of a similar violation of the flag code and show of disrespect to our flag when it suits their personal political feelings.

Our flag and what it symbolizes mean too much to me to use it as a prop in some damned political protest. This nation has weathered greater storms than the election of this latter day Jimmy Carter, and we will survive. Those who think we are in dire distress don't know the meaning of "distress," and their immediate panic and drama show what little they think of the greatness of this nation and its citizens.

And yes, I am a veteran. My .

Here is a good read from Ron Paul about the stupid law Congress was trying to pass on flag buring...it's long but well worth the read...

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Flag Burning Amendment[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]by Rep. Ron Paul, MD[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Ron Paul in the US House of Representatives, June 3, 2003[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the rule, although unenthusiastically. I am not too excited about this process, and certainly I am not very excited about this proposal to amend the Constitution. As for my viewpoint, I see the amendment as very unnecessary and very dangerous. I want to make a few points along those lines. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It has been inferred too often by those who promote this amendment that those who oppose it are less patriotic, and I think that is unfair. And an earlier statement was made by the gentleman from Florida that everybody here is patriotic and nobody's patriotism should be challenged. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It has also been said that if one does not support this amendment to the flag that they are disloyal to the military, and that cannot possibly be true. I have served 5 years in the military, and I do not feel less respectful of the military because I have a different interpretation on how we should handle the flag. But nevertheless, I think what we are doing here is very serious business because it deals with more than just the flag. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]First off, I think what we are trying to achieve through an amendment to the Constitution is to impose values on people – that is, teach people patriotism with our definition of what patriotism is. But we cannot force values on people; we cannot say there will be a law that a person will do such and such because it is disrespectful if they do not, and therefore, we are going to make sure that people have these values that we want to teach. Values in a free society are accepted voluntarily, not through coercion, and certainly not by law, because the law implies that there are guns, and that means the federal government and others will have to enforce these laws. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Here we are, amending the Constitution for a noncrisis. How many cases of flag burning have we seen? I have seen it on television a few times in the last year, but it was done on foreign soil, by foreigners, who had become angry at us over our policies, but I do not see that many Americans in the streets burning up flags. There were probably a lot more in previous decades, but in recent years it averages out to about eight, about eight cases a year, and they are not all that horrendous. It involves more vandalism, teenagers taking flags and desecrating the flag and maybe burning it, and there are local laws against that. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This is all so unnecessary. There are already laws against vandalism. There are state laws that say they cannot do it and they can be prosecuted. So this is overkill. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]As a matter of fact, the Supreme Court has helped to create this. I know a lot of people depend on the Supreme Court to protect us, but in many ways, I think the Supreme Court has hurt us. So I agree with those who are promoting this amendment that the Supreme Court overreacted, because I think the States should have many more prerogatives than they do. Many states have these laws, and I believe that we should have a Supreme Court that would allow more solutions to occur at the state level. They would be imperfect, no doubt, it would not be perfect protection of liberty by state laws. But let me tell my colleagues, when we come here as politicians and superpatriots and we pass amendments to the Constitution, that will be less than perfect, then it will be just like the Supreme Court – a poor national solution. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is a ruling for everyone, and if we make a mistake, it affects everybody in every state, and that is what I am afraid we are doing here. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The First Amendment has been brought up on several occasions, and I am sure it will be mentioned much more in general debate. This amendment does not directly violate the First Amendment, but what it does, it gives Congress the authority to write laws that will violate the First Amendment, and this is where the trouble is. Nothing but confusion and litigation can result.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mr. Speaker, I do not believe much good will come of it. A lot of good intentions are put into the effort, but I see no real benefit.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It was mentioned earlier that those who supported campaign finance laws were inconsistent. And others would say that we do not have to worry about the First amendment when we are dealing with the flag amendments. But I would suggest there is another position. Why can we not be for the First amendment when it comes to campaign finance reform and not ask the government to regulate the way we spend our money and advertise, while at the same time supporting the First amendment here? [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It seems that consistency is absent in this debate. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is said by the chairman of the committee that he does not want to hear much more about the First amendment. We have done it before, so therefore it must be okay. But we should not give up that easily. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]He suggested that we have amended the Constitution before when the courts have ruled a certain way. And he is absolutely right, we can do that and we have done that. But to use the 16th amendment as a beautiful example of how the Congress solves problems, I would expect the same kind of dilemma coming out of this amendment as we have out of the 16th amendment which, by the way, has been questioned by some historians as not being correctly ratified. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]I think one of our problems has been that we have drifted away from the rule of law, we have drifted away from saying that laws ought to be clear and precise and we ought to all have a little interpretation of the laws. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The gentleman earlier had said that there are laws against slander so therefore we do violate the First amendment. Believe me, I have never read or heard about a legislative body or a judge who argued that you can lie and commit fraud under the First amendment. But the First amendment does say "Congress shall write no laws." That is precise. So even the laws dealing with fraud and slander should be written by the States. This is not a justification for us to write an amendment that says Congress shall write laws restricting expression through the desecration of the flag.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This amendment, as written so far, does not cause the conflict. It will be the laws that will be written and then we will have to decide what desecration is and many other things. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Earlier in the debate it was said that an individual may well be unpatriotic if he voted against a Defense appropriation bill. I have voted against the Defense appropriation bill because too much money in the Defense budget goes to militarism that does not really protect our country. I do not believe that is being unpatriotic. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mr. Speaker, let me summarize why I oppose this Constitutional amendment. I have myself served 5 years in the military, and I have great respect for the symbol of our freedom. I salute the flag, and I pledge to the flag. I also support overriding the Supreme Court case that overturned State laws prohibiting flag burning. Under the Constitutional principle of federalism, questions such as whether or not Texas should prohibit flag burning are strictly up to the people of Texas, not the United States Supreme Court. Thus, if this amendment simply restored the state's authority to ban flag burning, I would enthusiastically support it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]However, I cannot support an amendment to give Congress new power to prohibit flag burning. I served my country to protect our freedoms and to protect our Constitution. I believe very sincerely that today we are undermining to some degree that freedom that we have had all these many years. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mr. Speaker, we have some misfits who on occasion burn the flag. We all despise this behavior, but the offensive conduct of a few does not justify making an exception to the First amendment protections of political speech the majority finds offensive. According to the pro-flag amendment Citizens Flag Alliance, there have been only 16 documented cases of flag burning in the last two years, and the majority of those cases involved vandalism or some other activity that is already punishable by local law enforcement! [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Let me emphasize how the First Amendment is written, "Congress shall make no law.'' That was the spirit of our Nation at that time: "Congress shall make no laws." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Unfortunately, Congress has long since disregarded the original intent of the Founders and has written a lot of laws regulating private property and private conduct. But I would ask my colleagues to remember that every time we write a law to control private behavior, we imply that somebody has to arrive with a gun, because if you desecrate the flag, you have to punish that person. So how do you do that? You send an agent of the government, perhaps an employee of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Flags, to arrest him. This is in many ways patriotism with a gun – if your actions do not fit the official definition of a "patriot,'' we will send somebody to arrest you. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Fortunately, Congress has models of flag desecration laws. For example, Saddam Hussein made desecration of the Iraq flag a criminal offense punishable by up to 10 years in prison. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is assumed that many in the military support this amendment, but in fact there are veterans who have been great heroes in war on both sides of this issue. I would like to quote a past national commander of the American Legion, Keith Kreul. He said:[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"Our Nation was not founded on devotion to symbolic idols, but on principles, beliefs and ideals expressed in the Constitution and its Bill of Rights. American veterans who have protected our banner in battle have not done so to protect a golden calf. Instead, they carried the banner forward with reverence for what it represents, our beliefs and freedom for all. Therein lies the beauty of our flag. A patriot cannot be created by legislation." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Secretary of State, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and two-time winner of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, Colin Powell has also expressed opposition to amending the constitution in this manner: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"I would not amend that great shield of democracy to hammer out a few miscreants. The flag will be flying proudly long after they have slunk away."[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mr. Speaker, this amendment will not even reach the majority of cases of flag burning. When we see flag burning on television, it is usually not American citizens, but foreigners who have strong objections to what we do overseas, burning the flag. This is what I see on television and it is the conduct that most angers me.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]One of the very first laws that Red China passed upon assuming control of Hong Kong was to make flag burning illegal. Since that time, they have prosecuted some individuals for flag burning. Our State Department keeps records of how often the Red Chinese persecute people for burning the Chinese flag, as it considers those prosecutions an example of how the Red Chinese violate human rights. Those violations are used against Red China in the argument that they should not have most-favored-nation status. There is just a bit of hypocrisy among those members who claim this amendment does not interfere with fundamental liberties, yet are critical of Red China for punishing those who burn the Chinese flag. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mr. Speaker, this is ultimately an attack on private property. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression depend on property. We do not have freedom of expression of our religion in other people's churches; it is honored and respected because we respect the ownership of the property. The property conveys the right of free expression, as a newspaper would or a radio station. Once Congress limits property rights, for any cause, no matter how noble, it limits freedom. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Some claim that this is not an issue of private property rights because the flag belongs to the country. The flag belongs to everybody. But if you say that, you are a collectivist. That means you believe everybody owns everything. So why do American citizens have to spend money to obtain, and maintain, a flag if the flag is community owned? If your neighbor, or the Federal Government, owns a flag, even without this amendment you do not have the right to go and burn that flag. If you are causing civil disturbances, you are liable for your conduct under state and local laws. But this whole idea that there could be a collective ownership of the flag is erroneous. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Finally, Mr. Speaker, I wish to point out that by using the word "desecration," which is traditionally reserved for religious symbols, the authors of this amendment are placing the symbol of the state on the same plane as the symbol of the church. The practical effect of this is to either lower religious symbols to the level of the secular state, or raise the state symbol to the status of a holy icon. Perhaps this amendment harkens back to the time when the state was seen as interchangeable with the church. In any case, those who believe we have "No king but Christ" should be troubled by this amendment. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]

We must be interested in the spirit of our Constitution. We must be interested in the principles of liberty. I therefore urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment. Instead, my colleagues should work to restore the rights of the individual states to ban flag burning, free from unconstitutional interference by the Supreme Court.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas. [/FONT]​

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Interesting pic I found online last year:

If anyone reads this and reacts like _i_ am the crazy one, maybe you should wait 48 hours before responding and do some home work.

Blind allegiance is not patriotic, it is called nationalism.
I believe in hard working Americans having the freedoms that our forefathers fought for and paid with their lives for.
While I admire those serving, they are taking directives from those whom are far separated from the ideals and mores of those founding fathers.

Spending $3Billion a week to expand an empire while workers here in US lose homes and jobs is a disgrace. It's like having an extravagant patron of a strip club spend gobs of money on booze and dancers while his own children are starving at home.
All in the name of 'progress' towards globalization.
The sovereignty of the US is being shaken from its foundation.

Only a fool would call this a conspiracy.
Look at the military-industrial complex that has profited off the deaths of Americans and foreigners alike.
Special interests have overrun our food supplies (GMO foods snuffing out small farmers), ironed out our borders (while harrassing good citizens for sake of security), pushing 'mother earth' more important than Human life!

By the time others deem we are 'in distress', it will be too late.
People need to wake up now. Turn off the idiot box.
Enough is enough. No more bailouts for banks that had made lucrative returns on subprimes. The answer is not a larger, bureacratic machine to 'fix' everything.

The answer is go back to Constitution and the Representative Republic that started this country.

I will say this. I was in the service. I know that our Government does not give a rats ass, about our service men and women. All they are is a number, that the Government has dumped money into. You swear to follow the orders of your superiors. They tell you if it's an unlawful order, that you do not have to follow it. Who makes that decesion? Sure the hell is not you. Our Military is for protecting, our homeland and well being first and foremost. Rather we keep fighting in Iraq, while our country slowly begins to tear itself apart. You can not blame the brave soldiers, airman, and seamen for what they do. They are taking orders from mostly armchair quaterbacks. That's why I have the upmost respect for our brave men, and women overseas. I could not fight that war, as it's something I do not believe in. They took an oath though, and they are doing their job with honor, commetment, and sacrifice. I would gladly stand up, with any patriot and defend our homeland. Just like our ancestors did years ago. To protect freedom for future generations. I love this country, and would not want to live anywhere else. No country is perfect. I will never take down my flags, or fly them upside down. I will always show respec to my colors, to my fellow patriots, to all the brave men and women who gave all, and to all those serving now. On that note if you do not like it here. Or you do not respect those who sacrifice for you. Then pack your ****, and get the **** out of America. Move to Iraq, or Africa. Or some other war ridden country.

"God bless america"
"Semper Paratus"
Patriot

 

[ATF Consumer]

Not that I completely follow this logic, but it certaily does make one think.



The HUGE Flag

Posted by Stephan Kinsella at April 10, 2009 11:41 PM
Today my wife and I were in the Houston Galleria with our 5 year old son. There was a huge American Flag hanging over one part--it must have been 50 yards long. My boy asked me why it was there. I thought about it. I remembered when I was in living in London in 1992, as a student, and watched the movied Kindergarten Cop in a dorm room with a group of about a dozen students from all over--England, Greece, Spain, Ireland. The entire room, except for me and the one other American, burst into laughter when the kindergartners were shown in class saying the Pledge of Allegiance. We were confused and asked for the movie to be paused, and said, "hold on--what's so funny?" One of them said, laughingly, dismissively, "You Americans--you are so patriotic!"
Later the same year in London, I went to the Bette Midler movie For the Boys, which opens with some number on a stage in front of a ginormous American flag. Again, titters from the non-Americans in the audience.
I remembered one time when I was at Callaway Gardens, Georgia, on the 4th of July, with hundreds of people around the gorgeous man-made lake, watching fireworks, and as Lee Greenwood's cloying "Proud to be An American" was played, the entire crowd stood up in unison, like toy soldiers, hands over hearts, at the line, "and I'd proudly STAND! UP!", and it gave me chills.
So I told my son, the flag is there because Americans have been taught by the government--the one that steals from me the money I would otherwise save for your college fund--to worship the state.
How much better under monarchy when there was a clear distinction between ruler and ruled; when secular worship of the state had not replaced real religion. Now that the state has taken the place of religion, and the distinction between the rulers and the ruled has been blurred, the state can do almost anything. Can anyone imagine a king extracting 60% taxes without getting his head handed to him?

 

[ATF Consumer]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Patriotism, Then and Now[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]by Donald W. Miller, Jr.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]In the wake of the September 11 attacks, Americans are showing their patriotism with fervor comparable to that seen after the attack on Pearl Harbor sixty years ago. Children once again recite the Pledge of Allegiance in their classrooms. People fly the American flag on their automobiles and sing the Star Spangled Banner at public events with heightened passion. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Such acts of patriotism date back to this country’s founding. Americans have displayed their flag ever since the Continental Congress certified its initial design, with thirteen stars, in June 1777. Francis Scott Key wrote the lyrics for the Star-Spangled Banner in 1814 to celebrate America’s victory against the British in a battle at Baltimore in the War of 1812. He penned these lyrics to what was then a popular pub song, written in 1770 by John Smith. (Congress passed an act in 1931 making it, with Key’s lyrics, the national anthem.) [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The United States has gone through three stages in its 225-year history. They started out as a republic (1776-1864). When the South lost the Civil War it became a nation (1865-1916); and when President Wilson sent American troops overseas to fight in the Great War in Europe the United States became an empire (1917-the present). Patriotism in America has also gone through various phases, like the country it honors.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]America’s first patriots included the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence. In this declaration they mutually pledged to each other "our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor" in their decision to secede from British rule. All of the signers, except one, were wealthy landowners and thus had a lot to lose. These patriots were willing to sacrifice their lives and property to establish a republic that was based on classical liberal ideas of individual liberty, the rule of law, personal responsibility, and constitutionally limited government.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The American republic lasted 84 years. It came to an end when Abraham Lincoln initiated a Civil War against the southern states that had seceded from the Union and, victorious, turned the country into a nation. People no longer called the country these United States but instead, the United States in a singular tense. Lincoln also laid the foundations for the U.S. to be an empire, a subject I address in another article.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]In the nation stage, a more nationalistic kind of patriotism arose. The southern states were back in the Union, conquered and subdued. Millions of immigrants were streaming into the northern states to work in factories and build railroads. Americans embraced new patriotic slogans like the one displayed at a Grand Army of the Republic encampment in 1897, which proclaimed, "One country, one flag, one people, one destiny." Immigrants should not continue to hold attachments to their former country and have divided loyalties; and Southerners must accept the fact that the United Stated is now a nation ruled by the central government in Washington, D.C., to which they owe their allegiance. Patriotic organizations like the Grand Army of the Republic, the Women’s Relief Corps, and the United Confederate Veterans worked in concert to promote national unity.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]In the 1890s educators and opinion makers realized that public schools could serve as a "mighty engine for the inculcation of patriotism," as the author of Methods of Teaching Patriotism in Public Schools (1890), George Balch, put it. Government began using the public schools to instill patriotism in their students. Balch wrote the first Pledge of Allegiance in 1887, one that went, "We give our hearts to our country. One country, one language, one flag." But the Pledge written by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister in Boston, in 1892, won out. It said, "I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all." (Flag "of the United States" was added in 1923, and one nation "under God" by an Act of Congress in 1954.) Americans recite this pledge, with its emphasis on the nation being "indivisible," a rebuff to Confederate pretensions to secession; and "Justice for all," which presaged the current-day American Marxist’s concept of "social justice." (Francis Bellamy was a first cousin of Edward Bellamy, author of the utopian socialist novel Looking Backward; and he shared his cousin’s belief that an enlightened centrally planned economy would bring social and economic equality for all.) [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]President Woodrow Wilson transformed the American nation into an empire by sending U.S. troops to France to come to the aid of Britain, France, Russia, and their allies in their war against the German Hohenzollern Empire and its allies. By 1917, this war between European empires, one that had no bearing on American national interests, had reached a stalemate. American intervention in what is now called World War I had disastrous consequences. The Wilson-inspired Treaty of Versailles destroyed Germany as an economically and politically viable nation, resulting in the rise of Adolph Hitler and the Nazis, and making it too weak to thwart the Bolshevik takeover of Russia and thus prevent the rise of Stalin. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Franklin Roosevelt steered our country into World War II, joining forces with Stalin, who he called "Uncle Joe." Worse than Hitler, who killed 20 million people, Stalin killed, in the name of socialism, more than 40 million people, by starvation, exposure, and executions; and his Soviet apparatchiks tortured millions of innocent men, women, and children. Roosevelt told his soldiers that they were fighting for freedom and democracy. But the truth of the matter is that World War II resulted in Roosevelt delivering ten Christian European nations to his Soviet "ally" to do with as he pleased. Stalin and the rulers of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics who followed him occupied and brutally suppressed these countries for the next 45 years, until the Soviet Empire itself collapsed in 1989. And after World War II rulers of the USSR threatened our country with nuclear annihilation. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The American Empire’s record in the Middle East is no better. It has supported and help establish corrupt dictatorships throughout the region, most notably in Iran, where American aid brought the Shah to power in 1953. Our empire has trained and supported terrorists that now attack us – Osama bin Laden, to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan; and Saddam Hussein, to carry out a war against Iran. Even worse, the United States government countenanced Iraq’s use of chemical weapons of mass destruction in its war against Iran. Imperial American presidents impose their will on Mideast countries by bombing them and by imposing crippling economic sanctions. The economic sanctions that our empire has enforced on Iraq over the last ten years have killed 1.4 million civilians, 400,000 of them children. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Stephen Decatur, U.S. Navy hero of the Barbary Wars of 1801-05 and 1815 against pirates in Tripoli, said, "Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong." Our country, right or wrong is the motto for modern-day patriotism in imperial America. A patriotic American in 2001 does not question the government’s judgment in its conduct of foreign affairs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]In addition to displaying the American Flag, saying the Pledge of Allegiance, singing the National Anthem, and not questioning our government’s actions in the running of its empire, government officials and opinion molders in the media encourage a new kind of patriotism. Americans need to get out and go shopping and buy new cars, refrigerators, and VCRs to keep the economy strong; and they should buy stocks to help support U.S. financial markets. It is now "unpatriotic" to save. Americans need to get out there and SPEND.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The ultimate sacrifice a patriot can make, of course, is to give his life for his country. For what reason? For a geopolitical interest? For oil at $20 a barrel? To maintain the U.S. empire or to repel an invasion of our country? American soldiers fought in Vietnam and 55,000 died. Why were American soldiers fighting a war in Southeast Asia? Was it for a reason worth my life or your life? Richard Maybury, author of Early Warning Report, speaks for many of us when he writes:[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The only thing I would be willing to die for is my home and family; I would do whatever it takes to repel an invader, to protect my homeland. When I am deciding what I think of a U.S. military operation in some far off corner of the world, I always ask the question, would this be worth my life? If the answer is no, then I don’t think it would be worth anyone else’s life either.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Asking questions like this fall on deaf ears in the current political climate. Those on the Left, with their collectivist bias, like the writers at The New York Times, advocate an empire-type form of global governance. And with regard to causalities incurred in the realization of this goal, as old French proverb puts it, "You can’t make an omelet with breaking eggs." Those on the Right, like the writers at The Weekly Standard and National Review, want to maintain and strengthen the existing American Empire (particularly if they are in charge and don’t have to be on the front lines fighting for it). A true patriot will risk his life for his country, but only for the right reason.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]America should follow the example of Switzerland, a country that engages in trade with all nations but maintains neutrality in international disputes. Fundamentalist guerillas may detest freedom and democracy, but not to the point where they will mount an attack on a country like Switzerland, which is a bastion of these virtues. People hate America because the United States intervenes in their affairs. America should adopt a noninterventionist foreign policy and become a Switzerland writ large. With chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists, the price an empire must now pay to be the policeman of the planet is too high. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]In the worst-case scenario, terrorists will use portable nuclear weapons and the variola (smallpox) virus to kill large numbers of Americans on their home soil. A nuclear weapon with the power of the one the United States dropped on Hiroshima in the Second World War now weighs less than 100 pounds and can fit inside a suitcase. FedEx will ship suitcases weighing 100 pounds, overnight delivery, anywhere in the world, for $700. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The last case of smallpox in the world occurred in 1977; and in 1979 the World Health Organization declared that vaccination had eradicated this disease in humans (but not the virus itself, which investigators study in several laboratories). This organization, however, discounted the possibility that some states would stockpile the virus and might one day use it as a biological weapon – most notably the USSR, which before its breakup controlled vast quantities of the virus, some of it stored in warheads on missiles targeted at American cities. Routine vaccination for smallpox was halted in the U.S. thirty years ago; and in people vaccinated before 1972, the vaccine, being effective for only ten to twenty years, no longer provides any immunity. The disease has a 30% mortality rate in unvaccinated people, and antibiotics don’t help – antibiotics are useless against viruses. Smallpox is highly contagious: it is transmitted person-to-person by skin contact, contact with contaminated clothing and bed linen, and in the air (virus particles in the mouth become airborne when an infected person talks). The U.S. government’s Center for Disease Control (in Atlanta) currently controls enough well preserved vaccine to vaccinate 7 to 15 million people, in a population of 300 million. The Black Death in the 14th century caused by bubonic plague, a bacterial disease susceptible to antibiotics, killed 40% of the population of Europe. In the urban and widely traveled 21st century, a well-planned and ruthless terrorist attack with variola virus could produce a Black Death from smallpox that could kill as many as 50-100 million Americans. (In the 20th century alone, with vaccination employed on a mass scale, smallpox killed 300 million people worldwide before the disease was eradicated in the 1970s.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Homeland security measures will not entirely stop determined terrorists. Even if the country becomes a full-fledged police state that requires national ID cards and travel permits, imposes martial law and curfews, engages in phone/email/internet surveillance, and has soldiers with automatic weapons manning check-points on the nation’s highways, terrorist attacks will still occur. No homeland security measures can stop a guerilla that is willing to sacrifice himself in his effort to kill other people. The only policy that will stop terrorism completely on our home soil is for our country to bring its troops back home and dismantle its empire. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]In my article, "A Fourteen Point Plan for a Post-Wilsonian America," the first five points, from a foreign policy standpoint, are: 1) End the United States’ worldwide military presence and bring American troops home; 2) Place no economic sanctions on other countries; 3) Engage in unrestricted trade with all nations; 4) Declare principled neutrality in all foreign disputes and wars; and 5) Withdraw from the United Nations. We should do this irrespective of its salutary effect on terrorism. America needs to return to a foreign policy of "peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; [but] entangling alliances with none," as Thomas Jefferson put it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]What should we do we do about the terrorists, and those who have supported them, who have killed and maimed our loved ones and fellow citizens? Use a remedy that the Constitution provides for punishing pirates. Issue Letters of Marque, with substantial monetary rewards from the United States government added, to anyone who can deliver, dead or alive, the perpetrators of these attacks, beginning with Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mark Twain, in the closing pages of a notebook he used from 1905-1908, wrote:[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]As the third stage in our country’s history soldiers on to a bad end, America desperately needs patriots like those who signed the Declaration of Independence announcing the American Colonies’ secession from the British Empire. We need the kind of patriots now that America had then. It will require very courageous people to effect this country’s change from the world’s sole superpower, with troops stationed in 106 countries supported by influential special interests that profit from their presence abroad, to a Switzerland writ large – from an empire to a republic. America needs brave and true patriots, ones like Congressman Ron Paul, that can help to bring this about, who will stand up to the United States Empire and free America from its grip. The stakes involved are freedom, liberty, and prosperity.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]October 30, 2001[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Donald Miller (send him mail) is a cardiac surgeon in Seattle.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Copyright © 2001 LewRockwell.com[/FONT]​

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

OMG PEOPLE ! Have you never heard of cliff notes ??? Summarize your thoughts and give links to the LONG stories .

I like to hear all of the opinions , but have mercy on those of us with short attention spans .

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Not that I completely follow this logic, but it certaily does make one think.



The HUGE Flag

Posted by Stephan Kinsella at April 10, 2009 11:41 PM
Today my wife and I were in the Houston Galleria with our 5 year old son. There was a huge American Flag hanging over one part--it must have been 50 yards long. My boy asked me why it was there. I thought about it. I remembered when I was in living in London in 1992, as a student, and watched the movied Kindergarten Cop in a dorm room with a group of about a dozen students from all over--England, Greece, Spain, Ireland. The entire room, except for me and the one other American, burst into laughter when the kindergartners were shown in class saying the Pledge of Allegiance. We were confused and asked for the movie to be paused, and said, "hold on--what's so funny?" One of them said, laughingly, dismissively, "You Americans--you are so patriotic!"
Later the same year in London, I went to the Bette Midler movie For the Boys, which opens with some number on a stage in front of a ginormous American flag. Again, titters from the non-Americans in the audience.
I remembered one time when I was at Callaway Gardens, Georgia, on the 4th of July, with hundreds of people around the gorgeous man-made lake, watching fireworks, and as Lee Greenwood's cloying "Proud to be An American" was played, the entire crowd stood up in unison, like toy soldiers, hands over hearts, at the line, "and I'd proudly STAND! UP!", and it gave me chills.
So I told my son, the flag is there because Americans have been taught by the government--the one that steals from me the money I would otherwise save for your college fund--to worship the state.
How much better under monarchy when there was a clear distinction between ruler and ruled; when secular worship of the state had not replaced real religion. Now that the state has taken the place of religion, and the distinction between the rulers and the ruled has been blurred, the state can do almost anything. Can anyone imagine a king extracting 60% taxes without getting his head handed to him?

Do you realize what the flag stands for? It does not stand for state, or federal Government. It stands for freedom. Freedom that men gave their lives for. Some people still bitch about so much. You think things are bad here, then please move. I will defend the constitution, not the Government. I will defend the people, not the politicians. You know if more people would grow balls, and stand up. Then maybe things would get better. You know I went to the Memorial day concert last night in Columbus. You saw kids that where with their parents. Other then that I did not see many highschool, or even my age range there (30's). It was mostly older people. I thought to myself, what the **** is wrong with this country. When you do not believe in someting, and stand for nothing. Eventualy everything will be taken from you. Our younger generations scare me. I believe in freedom, and the constitution. I realize we need some form of Government, and law. Though I do not support maybe a 1/4 of their decesions. If we do not stand up for what's right and just. Then we are nothing more then slaves. I would love to see you walk up to a sailer, airman, soldier, or patriot and tell them the flag stands for nothing. No one will ever convince me to take down my flags. The only way someone would get them is when I'm dead.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Do you realize what the flag stands for? It does not stand for state, or federal Government. It stands for freedom. Freedom that men gave their lives for. Some people still bitch about so much. You think things are bad here, then please move. I will defend the constitution, not the Government. I will defend the people, not the politicians. You know if more people would grow balls, and stand up. Then maybe things would get better. You know I went to the Memorial day concert last night in Columbus. You saw kids that where with their parents. Other then that I did not see many highschool, or even my age range there (30's). It was mostly older people. I thought to myself, what the **** is wrong with this country. When you do not believe in someting, and stand for nothing. Eventualy everything will be taken from you. Our younger generations scare me. I believe in freedom, and the constitution. I realize we need some form of Government, and law. Though I do not support maybe a 1/4 of their decesions. If we do not stand up for what's right and just. Then we are nothing more then slaves. I would love to see you walk up to a sailer, airman, soldier, or patriot and tell them the flag stands for nothing. No one will ever convince me to take down my flags. The only way someone would get them is when I'm dead.

I'm a Navy verteran...

Tell me which wars our men and women died for other than the Revolutionary War to protect OUR American freedom?

 

[22lr]

Fly it right or dont fly it at all. I hate it when people fly the flag upside down to make a protest. Do it with someone else, NOT OLD GLORY.

 

[MoparMan]

I voted for option 1. I am a soldier currently and it upsets me when i see people do this. It even upsets me more when i see a different nations flag flying above the US Flag.

Most of the americans that do this havent even seen distress yet or may never thanks to our brave servicemembers.

It seems like the people that fly the US Flag upside down have never served ,therefore do not know what it means to us when we see this.

I mean lets face it we aren't being overrun by nazi's or something, and if you want to make a statement join the military and help us protect you and yours.

 

[MoparMan]

I'm a Navy verteran...

Tell me which wars our men and women died for other than the Revolutionary War to protect OUR American freedom?

Are you kidding me? So your saying our soldiers past and present have died and been injured for nothing. BULLSH**!

You being a Vet should know better than that. No offense but maybe you need a History Lesson.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Are you kidding me? So your saying our soldiers past and present have died and been injured for nothing. BULLSH**!

You being a Vet should know better than that. No offense but maybe you need a History Lesson.

No, they certainly did die for a reason, but it wasn't to protect our American Freedom.


You are missing what I am saying altogether...did you not read the other lengthy posts?

History lesson huh...I asked a question that have not got a response from yet...what wars have our American soldiers died for to protect OUR American Freedoms?

 

[MoparMan]

I'd like to think and believe every damn one. The time i start to think different id be showing disrespect toward everyone ive ever known and not known that has died during a conflict.

All im saying is if you want to have a political opinion towards the government please do not do it where it slaps our soldiers in the face.

For instance, during one of my buddies funerals about 6 years ago, there happened to be protestors there. Here we are trying to bury a brave soldier that went overseas to protect their right to protest and they show up disrespecting him. They protested the war, protested the flag, protested the administration. None of which we had/have control over. Thankfully there were police on scent to escort them away because a bunch of soldiers,former soldiers, and bikers were there to protect his honor.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I'd like to think and believe every damn one. The time i start to think different id be showing disrespect toward everyone ive ever known and not known that has died during a conflict.

All im saying is if you want to have a political opinion towards the government please do not do it where it slaps our soldiers in the face.

For instance, during one of my buddies funerals about 6 years ago, there happened to be protestors there. Here we are trying to bury a brave soldier that went overseas to protect their right to protest and they show up disrespecting him. They protested the war, protested the flag, protested the administration. None of which we had/have control over. Thankfully there were police on scent to escort them away because a bunch of soldiers,former soldiers, and bikers were there to protect his honor.

So you are a blind patriot?

Because I disagree with the wars in the past does not mean I am showing disrespect for their service and their sacrifice.
I totally honor every last life that was given...what I am saying is that decisions of a few high ups, caused the deaths of thousands of lives that would have otherwise been saved.
When the US meddles into others affairs, we are engaging in dangerous events that come with grave consequences. Throughout history, our elected official have placed embargoes, sanctions and other actions toward countries that resulted in further endangerment to the United States.

Why is it that military personnel believe war is necessary when our elected officials say so, but when they say that another bailout is needed, you then raise questions? Which is more important to you...money or American lives? Where is your patriotism for keeping the American economy alive?

It does not make one unpatriotic to question the acts of war. To call someone unpatriotic for questioning such is purely fascist.

 

[MoparMan]

I agree there may have been a war(s)/conflict(s) we shouldn't have entered into. But you have been in the military should know that, as a servicemember you are not a politician. So i'd like to belive when im overseas fighting i'm saving the US from speaking muslim-i know its probably about the oil. But neither you or I have all the intel and facts about what the former regime was capable of, just what the news want to report on. And thats another thing the news always reports the bad stuff over there because that sells, but there is tons of good things we have done over there and definately more people than not want/need us over there.
Lets just end this now and agree to disagree.