Flag burning laws

[KLB]

Honestly on the fence on this one and have wavered both ways over the years.

I think there's some element of a larger victimhood. If I batter you because I hate you, that's a me and you issue. If I batter you because you're *insert group here* I'm sending a larger message that your group is unwelcome to live here, shop here, whatever here. In some ways it's no different than battery on a law enforcement officer is a more serious crime because it's an assault on the rule of law as well as an assault on an individual, so broader victimhood.

Reasonable minds may differ, of course, and I'm still not sure exactly where I land on the topic myself.

If only they were used in the narrow way you define.

 

[KLB]

Can you cite that law, as I'm unfamiliar with it.

Alternately, what is the law: it's perfectly legal to destroy *your* property but not perfectly legal to vandalize *other people's* property regardless of which flag is which.

How about marks on a crosswalk?

Teens May Face Years in Jail for Defacing Gay Pride Crosswalk

The four teens arrested for defacing with scooters a gay pride crosswalk at Spokane, Washington could face up to 10 years in prison.

www.nysun.com

 

[HoughMade]

Honestly on the fence on this one and have wavered both ways over the years.

I think there's some element of a larger victimhood. If I batter you because I hate you, that's a me and you issue. If I batter you because you're *insert group here* I'm sending a larger message that your group is unwelcome to live here, shop here, whatever here. In some ways it's no different than battery on a law enforcement officer is a more serious crime because it's an assault on the rule of law as well as an assault on an individual, so broader victimhood.

Reasonable minds may differ, of course, and I'm still not sure exactly where I land on the topic myself.

I don't disagree that the effect could be used to "send a message"...but that's the problem. It is a message about beliefs. In the hands of the truly good people, a useful tool, but we can't count on the "truly good people" to be in charge of deciding who needs to be punished greater, hence, the 1st Amendment.

As for battery on a law enforcement officer, that is an actual act on an actual public official. I understand that reasonable minds can differ.

 

[loudgroove]

Here is my thoughts, The 1st A helps an enemy to expose themselves. Censorship helps them to hide in plain sight.

 

[schmart]

I just wrote to my representative in Congress, your thoughts INGO?
Dear Rep. Houchin, I think there needs to be a law that allows burning the American flag, with these provisos... you have to announce the time and place of the burning, every VFW, and American Legion post with in 25 miles MUST be notified. I think if those brave people who have fought, and lost friends in war show up to a flag burning, the burnings will stop pretty darn quick! Just my thoughts, thank you for your time, and keep up the great work you are doing for us!!!!

Although I think un-respectful flag burning is abhorrent, I fully believe it should not be outlawed! We have enough government restrictions on us already. If we would outlaw this 1st amendment right, then 2a would quickly follow and be removed. Then we could easily be forced to house others (3A) {although would likely be immigrants}...
--Rick

 

[actaeon277]

By the way.
Flags don't have to be retired by a veteran's group.
You can do it yourself at home.
Just be respectful.
If you want ceremony, there are dozens online.

 

[schmart]

By the way.
Flags don't have to be retired by a veteran's group.
You can do it yourself at home.
Just be respectful.
If you want ceremony, there are dozens online.

I agree with this. As a Boy Scout troop leader, we had numerous flag retirement ceremonies. It was always a somber event that I believe grew patriotism with the scouts ranks.
--Rick

 

[BehindBlueI's]

How about marks on a crosswalk?
View attachment 368864

Teens May Face Years in Jail for Defacing Gay Pride Crosswalk

The four teens arrested for defacing with scooters a gay pride crosswalk at Spokane, Washington could face up to 10 years in prison.

www.nysun.com

Seems like not their property?

I seriously doubt they get anything like the maximum sentence the media is breathlessly reporting and that their community service + court costs won't be reported on.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't disagree that the effect could be used to "send a message"...but that's the problem. It is a message about beliefs.

Not what I meant, talking from the offender side and not the prosecutor side.

If I batter you because I don't like you, that's a me and you problem alone. If I batter you because you are a member of the "wrong group to be living in my neighborhood" that's not just a me and you problem. That's an intimidation of everyone in the "wrong group" in the area. That's the message I mean, the offender essentially saying "you can't live here/shop here/work here because you don't have the right (insert race/sex/religion/whatever) to do so" via their acts.

 

[KLB]

Seems like not their property?

I seriously doubt they get anything like the maximum sentence the media is breathlessly reporting and that their community service + court costs won't be reported on.

Is it illegal to leave marks on any other part of the street?

 

[printcraft]

Seems like not their property?

I seriously doubt they get anything like the maximum sentence the media is breathlessly reporting and that their community service + court costs won't be reported on.

If it were an American flag mural they wouldn’t have been charged. Change my mind.

 

[Wstar425]

Just put Stars and Stripes along with the Gadsden Flags up. Nobody better ever try to take them down.

Been flying this for over three years now. Since I retired I try to take them down at night, but I do have a light at the top of the pole. The nylon flags can’t handle the wind and the cotton ones fade pretty quickly. A good 4x6 flag is around $60 now, so trying to make them last a bit longer.

It’s inside a fence, you better hope I don’t catch you trying to take it down. Not far off the road, I often get a beep or two from passing traffic running them up or down.

 

[Minnesota Hoosier]

If it were an American flag mural they wouldn’t have been charged. Change my mind.

I think if someone was working on it for a event or upcoming holiday then yes they probably would be punished if they were caught. We had a Juneteenth mural that was painted on the ground desecrated the day after it was announced that it had finished. It wasn't just a burn out though it was a donut and pretty easy to see that it was intentional. The way I see it is that if you see an art work or something that was just painted on the ground for a event or something and you first thought is to ruin it then I think your an *******. After the event is over I think its fine if it gets tire marks on it because its on the road. We usualy paint new ones for upcoming events anyways.

 

[printcraft]

 

[Minnesota Hoosier]

Of the American flag being vandalized or just street are being vandalized?

 

[actaeon277]

Maybe murals shouldn't be on a road.

 

[Ingomike]

Maybe murals shouldn't be on a road.

Isn’t the act of just driving over them to some degree “damaging”? Where does routine damage stop and chargeable damage start?

 

[Minnesota Hoosier]

Maybe murals shouldn't be on a road.

I agree, personally I'm more of a fan of my murals being on walls but i still think its a jerk move to vandalism them but bored teens will be bored teens cant really stop them.

 

[Minnesota Hoosier]

Isn’t the act of just driving over them to some degree “damaging”? Where does routine damage stop and chargeable damage start?

I dont think it really maters after a the event is over but if its made for celebration i think that is ok to hold off on doing a burn out for a few days.

 

[Ingomike]

I dont think it really maters after a the event is over but if its made for celebration i think that is ok to hold off on doing a burn out for a few days.

But the question was not answered.