First Crossdresser Working in the White House

[foszoe]

The only people I ever recall Jesus 'shaming' were the hyper-religious hypocrites.

Jesus was harshest on those proclaiming how righteous they were living and oblivious to the wrong they were committing. The those who admitted wrong doing and repented Jesus was most merciful. Do you think Jesus considered homosexuality, transsexuality, bisexuality to be a sin?

 

[actaeon277]

 

[churchmouse]

 

[steveh_131]

Jesus was harshest on those proclaiming how righteous they were living and oblivious to the wrong they were committing.

These folks don't claim to be righteous by biblical standards. The pharisees did. These folks don't claim to be super-Christians while wallowing in their own [socially acceptable sins] and looking down their nose at people. The pharisees did (super-jews, anyways).

Remember any instances of Jesus bumping into people who were openly living in sexual sin? What about the Samaritan woman in John chapter 4? Did he 'publicly shame' her when he ran into her at the well? Did he say mean things about her on the internet? Did he go to her house and hold up a sign telling everybody what a slut she was?

No. He acknowledged her sinfulness and told her about the Messiah, because without Him all of our attempts at righteousness are worthless.

Do you think Jesus considered homosexuality, transsexuality, bisexuality to be a sin?

Yes, absolutely. And any proclaimed Christians who participate or condone such things do require a sharp rebuke as the pharisees received.

 

[printcraft]

I might disagree with their lifestyle and believe, if they continue on, they might be dooming themselves in the here-after, but they're human beings. We're all children of God. We don't have to condone, celebrate, or like their choices but we're supposed to love them as our own brothers and sisters....at least that's what I'm taught.

See! With a transvestite you can love them as both at the same time! It's like love².

 

[foszoe]

I don't think Jesus engaged in public shaming period, which is what you seem to be suggesting because your definition of shaming seems to be degradation of a person or group of persons, which no Christian should condone.

For me this is black and white. A person committing a sin deserves love and respect, not shaming by anyone. At the same time, I can not condone the sin nor pass judgment on the sinner for I have my own sins for which I am in constant need of repentance.

When, however, I attempt to justify my sins and thus myself, then I have passed from the realm of repentance to unrepentant. This can happen in denying my sin is a sin, it can happen by saying my sin is not as bad as someone else's sin, it can happen when I attempt to correct another in his sin while ignoring my own. You don't have to claim to be a super Christian to be subject to any of the above. You do have to claim to be Christian though because at that point you place yourself in submission to Christian teaching.

Today is commemorated St Moses the black and one of my favorite stories about him is the following:

A certain brother committed an offence in Scete, the camp of the monks, and when a congregation was assembled ‎on this matter, they sent after Abba Moses, but he refused to come; then they sent the priest of the church to him, ‎saying, "Come, for all the people are expecting you," and he rose up and came. He took a basket with a hole in it ‎and filled it with sand, and carried it upon his shoulders, and those who went out to meet him said unto him, "What ‎does this mean, O father?" And he said to them, "The sands are my sins which are running down behind me and I ‎cannot see them, and, even, have come to this day to judge shortcomings which are not mine." And when they heard ‎this they set free that brother and said nothing further to him.‎

These folks don't claim to be righteous by biblical standards. The pharisees did. These folks don't claim to be super-Christians while wallowing in their own [socially acceptable sins] and looking down their nose at people. The pharisees did (super-jews, anyways).

Remember any instances of Jesus bumping into people who were openly living in sexual sin? What about the Samaritan woman in John chapter 4? Did he 'publicly shame' her when he ran into her at the well? Did he say mean things about her on the internet? Did he go to her house and hold up a sign telling everybody what a slut she was?

No. He acknowledged her sinfulness and told her about the Messiah, because without Him all of our attempts at righteousness are worthless.



Yes, absolutely. And any proclaimed Christians who participate or condone such things do require a sharp rebuke as the pharisees received.

 

[steveh_131]

I don't think Jesus engaged in public shaming period, which is what you seem to be suggesting because your definition of shaming seems to be degradation of a person or group of persons, which no Christian should condone.

For me this is black and white. A person committing a sin deserves love and respect, not shaming by anyone. At the same time, I can not condone the sin nor pass judgment on the sinner for I have my own sins for which I am in constant need of repentance.

When, however, I attempt to justify my sins and thus myself, then I have passed from the realm of repentance to unrepentant. This can happen in denying my sin is a sin, it can happen by saying my sin is not as bad as someone else's sin, it can happen when I attempt to correct another in his sin while ignoring my own. You don't have to claim to be a super Christian to be subject to any of the above. You do have to claim to be Christian though because at that point you place yourself in submission to Christian teaching.

I believe that you and I are on the same page.

 

[IndyGal65]

Oh I am! I am so glad that message comes through! I do prefer kittens over puppies though, they are more streamline for a better flight trajectory, they usually land on their feet so I can usually get two flights with them. It's great and I make a lot of money on side bets that way too! Also, while at the water cooler, I hand out David Duke for President bumper stickers, have white robe fittings and noose tying lessons. I tell off color jokes at others expense, I DEFINITELY drink the last of the coffee without brewing another pot, Every. Single. Time! The toilet paper thing though is a bit of a stretch, I don't use it as I prefer to use paper from a report on a coworkers desk. I then run it thru the shredder to keep people guessing where the "dead rat" is, so much fun!

oh, and I pinch girl's bottoms too! I guess you could say I am a people person.

Nice deflection. It was kinda funny though.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

These folks don't claim to be righteous by biblical standards. The pharisees did. These folks don't claim to be super-Christians while wallowing in their own [socially acceptable sins] and looking down their nose at people. The pharisees did (super-jews, anyways).

Remember any instances of Jesus bumping into people who were openly living in sexual sin? What about the Samaritan woman in John chapter 4? Did he 'publicly shame' her when he ran into her at the well? Did he say mean things about her on the internet? Did he go to her house and hold up a sign telling everybody what a slut she was?

No. He acknowledged her sinfulness and told her about the Messiah, because without Him all of our attempts at righteousness are worthless.



Yes, absolutely. And any proclaimed Christians who participate or condone such things do require a sharp rebuke as the pharisees received.

I don't think Jesus engaged in public shaming period, which is what you seem to be suggesting because your definition of shaming seems to be degradation of a person or group of persons, which no Christian should condone.

For me this is black and white. A person committing a sin deserves love and respect, not shaming by anyone. At the same time, I can not condone the sin nor pass judgment on the sinner for I have my own sins for which I am in constant need of repentance.

When, however, I attempt to justify my sins and thus myself, then I have passed from the realm of repentance to unrepentant. This can happen in denying my sin is a sin, it can happen by saying my sin is not as bad as someone else's sin, it can happen when I attempt to correct another in his sin while ignoring my own. You don't have to claim to be a super Christian to be subject to any of the above. You do have to claim to be Christian though because at that point you place yourself in submission to Christian teaching.

Today is commemorated St Moses the black and one of my favorite stories about him is the following:

A certain brother committed an offence in Scete, the camp of the monks, and when a congregation was assembled ‎on this matter, they sent after Abba Moses, but he refused to come; then they sent the priest of the church to him, ‎saying, "Come, for all the people are expecting you," and he rose up and came. He took a basket with a hole in it ‎and filled it with sand, and carried it upon his shoulders, and those who went out to meet him said unto him, "What ‎does this mean, O father?" And he said to them, "The sands are my sins which are running down behind me and I ‎cannot see them, and, even, have come to this day to judge shortcomings which are not mine." And when they heard ‎this they set free that brother and said nothing further to him.‎

I believe that you and I are on the same page.

Good discussion, guys.

 

[Mark 1911]

The only people I ever recall Jesus 'shaming' were the hyper-religious hypocrites.

So true. There is no need to shame people when the life we lead is noble and virtuous, has a way of attracting people on its own because it is not so our accomplishment as much as God's life within us. Jesus was the embodiment of strength and love, an iron fist in a velvet glove. He was truth and light, and as such, attracted those with hearts open to truth and light like a magnet. He didn't hesitate to call sin a sin, but at the same time embodied love. The woman caught in the act of adultery became his follower for the rest of her life and was one of the few who stuck with him until the end of his earthly life, yet at that moment of truth conversation at the well, he didn't hesitate to tell her, sin no more.

 

[chizzle]

Oh boy isn't that special? What a flipping joke. I sure hope a Mack truck doesn't run over it. Who here wouldn't punch that thing immediately if you ran across it in a dark alley?

Threatening unprovoked violence against transgender people does not have a place on INGO. I flagged your post and requested that mods remove it. I can only hope that other INGO'ers will do the same with similar intolerant posts that make gun owners look like intolerant idiots on issues that have nothing to do with responsible firearm ownership.

I've met several very nice transgender people when I volunteered at my local shooting range. It is because of attitudes like J706 that gays, lesbians, transsexuals, and transgender people are at a MUCH HIGHER risk of violence. The folks that I've met in those groups are awesome potential gun owners, as they have a real need for personal protection, and tend to earnestly want to learn how to handle their firearms safely. I'd rather see more of them on INGO, and fewer people espousing hate like J706.

 

[chizzle]

these trannies and cross dressers make my stomach turn, they are disgusting and belong in a mental hospital somewhere. If one were to ever approach me, I'd knock it the f out. Not out of fear, but pure revulsion and disgust.

Threatening unprovoked violence to someone? Come on INGO, we're better than this.

 

[Dead Duck]

Threatening unprovoked violence against transgender people does not have a place on INGO. I flagged your post and requested that mods remove it. I can only hope that other INGO'ers will do the same with similar intolerant posts that make gun owners look like intolerant idiots on issues that have nothing to do with responsible firearm ownership.

I've met several very nice transgender people when I volunteered at my local shooting range. It is because of attitudes like J706 that gays, lesbians, transsexuals, and transgender people are at a MUCH HIGHER risk of violence. The folks that I've met in those groups are awesome potential gun owners, as they have a real need for personal protection, and tend to be earnestly want to learn how to handle their firearms safely. I'd rather see more of them on INGO, and fewer people espousing hate like J706.

So-
Handing a grown man, in a dress, a gun................is this a recurring thing with you?
You didn't think it was just a little, oh, I don't know, queer? ([STRIKE]No[/STRIKE] pun intended)

People react differently to different situations. Especially the shock of seeing a man in a dress, in person, for the first time.....or any time for that matter. It's a shocker probably because It Is Not Normal and will never be the normal. A tranny is NOT the new woman - Sorry.

I know plenty of "normal" gays (as oppose to "flamers") that have this same reaction to trannys when they see them. And this is in CA....like, tranny central USA.

 

[chizzle]

I think there is an important distinction between "Normal" and "Rare".

History of transgender people dates back at least as far as the " Two-Spirit" people celebrated by the Native Americans. With a history of ~20,000 years, I don't think the description of "not normal" fits. That being said, they are exceedingly rare. Much like a beautiful woman who is a supermodel may be exceedingly rare, I'm can't imagine calling her "not normal" in the same derogatory tone used to describe transgender people.

If you'd like to read an article on the history of transgender folks in Native American culture, I encourage you to check out the following. If the Huffington Post isn't your style, I encourage you to Google it; there are many others:

Two-Spirit People: Gays Accepted by Native Americans | Charles Orgbon

 

[churchmouse]

OK fellas.
Some have taken offense to the subject matter.
Please keep it Civil all around. Even those who are offended.
This is the "Warning"

 

[Dead Duck]

Was that a double post or one post from each of you?

 

[chizzle]

Was that a double post or one post from each of you?

Touche. I accidentally posted the same post twice, so I actually laughed out loud when I read your witty one-liner. I think a moderator helped delete my extra post.

 

[mrjarrell]

Not sure what people are getting bent about. Jesus wore a dress and most of the folks here espousing violence worship him.

 

[churchmouse]

Not sure what people are getting bent about. Jesus wore a dress and most of the folks here espousing violence worship him.

Mr.J....I believe that was a robe.

 

[Dead Duck]

Touche. I accidentally posted the same post twice, so I actually laughed out loud when I read your witty one-liner. I think a moderator helped delete my extra post.

Oh Phooey!
I couldn't help it though. Just too funny right then.