Felony?

[jd4320t]

Showed the video to the guys at work and we pretty much agree that if we charge a wall of cops we would be expecting a beat down. Not saying it's right but it's going to happen.

 

[public servant]

Just saying there should be no difference in how someone is prosecuted. Justice should be blind!

I'm sorry I cannot rep you. You are correct. Justice should be blind.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Typical DZ posting.

When will you learn that you should probably keep your opinion to yourself unless you were there?

So the charges were dropped and the city was not sued. Im guessing her lawyer gave he some info on what she shouldnt do next time she decides to act like a jackhole.

Edit to not insult the good lawyers.

 

[samot]

charge a wall of cops we would be expecting a beat down. Not saying it's right but it's going to happen.

This is probably good advice...

 

[public servant]

This is probably good advice...

At a minimum...don't grab the baton...if this is truly what led to the events that followed. I'm not saying it did or did not happen. There is not enough video to tell. And that is just my opinion.

I will add that his use of the "B" word was unacceptable. There is a time and place for profanity...but name calling is never the answer. It's never personal...always business. Emotions should never enter into the equation. Sometimes this is difficult. Whether or not she is a "B" word...don't express it.

 

[4sarge]

Life's a B***h, then she falls down.

Clear case of provocation, she did something that caused him to do something that she regretted.

Reap What You Sow or Ask and Ye Shall Receive

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Are we applying Indiana law?

If so, no that would likely not be Aggravated Battery (don't think that would be a substantial risk of death). Potentially Battery with a Deadly Weapon and Criminal Recklessness with a Deadly Weapon.

Prosecutors, as the Bisard case shows, are always hesitant to go after cops, especially while cops are working. Besides, in this case we do not know what happened before the video.

Provocation? Spitting, threw something at the police, etc.?

Told multiple times that she was interfering or obstructing?

We just don't know . . . yet. As many cameras that were there, you would think something would show.

I could foresee a civil suit over this.

 

[samot]

At a minimum...don't grab the baton...if this is truly what led to the events that followed. I'm not saying it did or did not happen. There is not enough video to tell. And that is just my opinion.

I will add that his use of the "B" word was unacceptable. There is a time and place for profanity...but name calling is never the answer. It's never personal...always business.

after thinking about it further......... the police are there to protect/ mediate the organized protest, if that lady is pravoking the very people that are protecting her from a stampeding mob , maybe she needed to be
' baton checked".
but from an officers standpoint, i would think that this particular officers actions would do nothing but make the mob more upset, therefor making the crowd more difficult to control
IDK, like PS said, theres not much video to go off of

 

[public servant]

Besides, in this case we do not know what happened before the video.

We just don't know . . . yet. As many cameras that were there, you would think something would show.

This 36 second video doesn't provide an entire timeline of the entire incident.

 

[TopDog]

Showed the video to the guys at work and we pretty much agree that if we charge a wall of cops we would be expecting a beat down. Not saying it's right but it's going to happen.

This ^

Things are not always as they seem. Since the media (including YouTube) is comprised of professional spin doctors and not people interested in the truth but rather shock value and entertainment value. You can never trust what you see or hear.

I know this however if a cop tells me to back up in a situation like the one in the video and I refuse to comply, even make a gesture towards the cop, I would expect force to be used against me.

Maybe she was hurt, maybe she was not. Is there a medical report provided? I have seen statements that she was not hurt.

Just as a citizen by standing having witnessed many times other "citizens" provoking cops to take action against them I find I always give the benefit of a doubt to the cops.

 

[public servant]

after thinking about it further......... the police are there to protect/ mediate the organized protest, if that lady is pravoking the very people that are protecting her from a stampeding mob , maybe she needed to be
' baton checked".
but from an officers standpoint, i would think that this particular officers actions would do nothing but make the mob more upset, therefor making the crowd more difficult to control
IDK, like PS said, theres not much video to go off of

And the highlighted part is something that must be taken into consideration.

I will add that if she did in fact grab the baton...he did exactly as I was instructed, rapidly and violently shove backwards in an attempt to force you to lose balance forcing distance between us. There are several ways to get someone to let go of the baton. That was one way. Another is to violently rotate the baton (you won't be able to hang on to it) and then leg sweep you to put distance between you and I. (Keep in mind I am not a Manadnock instructor) Would that have looked any better in the limited video?

I will guarantee I'm going to do whatever is necessary not to lose control of that baton (just as I wouldn't lose control of a firearm)...at whatever cost. Sometimes "please let go" doesn't work. However an emotional response is not necessary.

Did she grab it? Unclear from the video.

 

[downzero]

Life's a B***h, then she falls down.

Clear case of provocation, she did something that caused him to do something that she regretted.

There's no causal relationship between anything that she did, and his actions. If you don't have the restraint and self-discipline to avoid this type of behavior, you shouldn't ever wear a badge again.

Showed the video to the guys at work and we pretty much agree that if we charge a wall of cops we would be expecting a beat down. Not saying it's right but it's going to happen.

Even if I agreed with you, that doesn't explain why this scumbag is still on the force, or why he was not charged criminally for his conduct. If I'd done what he did to an animal or your car, I'd be in jail.

Typical DZ posting.

When will you learn that you should probably keep your opinion to yourself unless you were there?

That's your opinion--one that I do not share. The government works for me, not the other way around. All adults should behave responsibly and be willing to defend their conduct. This man's conduct was indefensible.

So the charges were dropped and the city was not sued.

So it's okay to strike someone with a baton, so long as the charges are dropped? I think society is saying a very different thing by declining to prosecute versus saying that someone is innocent.

Furthermore, it's obvious that by concluding anything from the fact that the city has not been sued, that you really don't understand the doctrine of qualified immunity, and the difficulty in successfully holding a police officer accountable. By any standard, this officer's conduct was totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean a plaintiff would be likely to prevail.

In short, we have created a system where, even when conduct is utterly indefensible, it's nearly impossible to recover. The pendulum has swung so far in their favor, that even felonious conduct by police officers, even that which results in injury, is tolerated.

Im guessing her lawyer gave he some info on what she shouldnt do next time she decides to act like a jackhole.

Edit to not insult the good lawyers.

I wouldn't count on there not being a lawsuit until the day it is time-barred by a statute of limitations.

I'll also note you calling her protected political speech 'acting like a jackhole.' Fortunately for you, I'll still defend your right to be a "jackhole" when it's your idea that you want to express.

 

[public servant]

DZ...Please explain your thoughts on the situation if she did indeed grab the baton...which I concede is not shown in the video.

I'm merely asking if that would change anything in your opinion.

 

[hornadylnl]

There isn't enough video to show whether the cop was provoked or not so I won't say he was right or wrong. But why did they come grab her when she was talking to the camera. What was she doing wrong there?

 

[downzero]

DZ...Please explain your thoughts on the situation if she did indeed grab the baton...which I concede is not shown in the video.

I'm merely asking if that would change anything in your opinion.

It's obvious to me from watching the video that it didn't happen. I read the other media reports and as far as I'm concerned, someone is making that up. So as far as I'm concerned, the answer to your question is merely a hypothetical one.

And no, it wouldn't change because it's obvious, to me, as someone trained in the crowd control, that this situation is totally out of control. There should never be a situation in which a single police officer is up against a crowd of people. There should never be a situation where striking someone is the only option unless they are fighting.

If this situation couldn't be handled any other way, that person should no longer wear the uniform. We deserve better. We're paying their salaries. If she grabbed his baton, this might have been an instance where at least some use of force as justified. What occurred was well beyond anything that could have been justified.

 

[Andy219]

I do not condone excessive force to be used by anyone. Having said that I can not say that the force used by that paticular officer was excessive. Rather by pondering over the evidence, or should I say lack of evidence, provided by this small edited snipet of a much larger picture. I can only make my assumption that the use of force used by this Officer in this particular situation was approriate.

How I make that assumption is based on several factors. 1st being the lack of substantial evidence. 2nd by lack of conviction of said Officer. 3rd these are Code Pink protesters. The 3rd point is what brought me to my overall assumption, I've seen these Code Pink protesters, and I must say there is nothing civil about them. And last but not least point number 4, if I were standing in that Officers shoes whether it be in a official position or as a bystander. If I keep telling you to back away, regardless of your gender, age or orientation; and you refuse. I will take what ever course I deem necessary to protect myself.

Rallys and protests are good things, but the people involved in these activities must realise, police are there to keep things from getting out of control. Not only for their saftey or the general publics saftey, but also for teh protesters saftey. All to often some of these groups like Code Pink, the Westboro Baptist Church etc.. cause alot of emotional outbursts from the general public. And if the Officers don't take quick and appropriate action things can go from bad to worse in a matter of minutes. I could see how some groups like the ones I mentioned above can cause something like this situation to head into riot mode rather quickly.

 

[Dogman]

There's no causal relationship between anything that she did, and his actions. If you don't have the restraint and self-discipline to avoid this type of behavior, you shouldn't ever wear a badge again.

There's nothing to show what she did before he took the action he did. You're defending the female without knowing all the facts.

Apparently he did use self-discipline, she wasn't hurt.
As far as "shouldn't ever wear a badge again", that's your opinion and your welcomed to it, but as in most matters, your opinion, and my opinion is irrelevant.

 

[downzero]

For the record, I don't know or care what "Code Pink" stands for and I don't care. Whatever it is, it's irrelevant to any calculus of whether what she was doing was constitutionally protected, or whether a large police officer in riot gear with a baton in his had was threatened by her.

My reading of other media accounts of this seems to suggest that this cop was reassigned to where he is no longer allowed to have contact with the public. If that's true, it seems to reason that someone besides just the citizen who was struck by the baton thought that his conduct was unacceptable.

 

[public servant]

It's obvious to me from watching the video that it didn't happen. I read the other media reports and as far as I'm concerned, someone is making that up. So as far as I'm concerned, the answer to your question is merely a hypothetical one.

And no, it wouldn't change because it's obvious, to me, as someone trained in the crowd control, that this situation is totally out of control. There should never be a situation in which a single police officer is up against a crowd of people. There should never be a situation where striking someone is the only option unless they are fighting.

If this situation couldn't be handled any other way, that person should no longer wear the uniform. We deserve better. We're paying their salaries. If she grabbed his baton, this might have been an instance where at least some use of force as justified. What occurred was well beyond anything that could have been justified.

Thanks for the response. Parts I agree with and parts I don't. But thanks.

 

[Dogman]

For the record, I don't know or care what "Code Pink" stands for and I don't care. Whatever it is, it's irrelevant to any calculus of whether what she was doing was constitutionally protected, or whether a large police officer in riot gear with a baton in his had was threatened by her.

My reading of other media accounts of this seems to suggest that this cop was reassigned to where he is no longer allowed to have contact with the public. If that's true, it seems to reason that someone besides just the citizen who was struck by the baton thought that his conduct was unacceptable.

Would you post or provide a link to those other media accounts that "suggest this" for the rest of us to read?