drug testing welfare recipients violates 4th Amendment???

[Arthur Dent]

Florida tried that, ended up costing them massively more for drug testing than they saved by busting people and kicking them off Gov benefits.

Seems to be an awful lot of people buying into that myth.

Facts don't belong in a political discussion about welfare programs. Mentioning this never gets noticed in these discussions.

 

[88GT]

Why would somebody turn away a person because they had an EBT card?

Same reason I won't accept Section 8 subsidies for my rentals: I have to get permission in the form of excessive government intrusion into my business to do so. Of course, there's always the principled position as well. Not every "best interest" consideration is monetary.

My grandfather a yellow dog democrate turn 18 the year before the great depression hit and one of the most profound thing he ever instilled in me was how FDR's CC camps helped you not feel worthless when asking for economic assistance. That comes from a man that also told me that they never knew that there was a depression "hell we was poor anyways so it was always a struggle to get by". Also joined the navy with two kids in diapers and one in the oven on December 8,1941. Maybe that is the answer if you don't want to pull your weight you can't be in the wagon. And yes I am a male shovanest pig so mama's without baby daddy's to do the work for the family can work in the day care or the kitchen.

Thus paving the way for allowing mooching to become socially acceptable.

Conservatives love to bash FDR's New Deal for its massive expansion of social welfare programs...but the Works Progress Administration (and as mentioned, the Civilian Conservations Corps) was extremely worthwhile IMO because it put people to work. It let a man keep his pride and dignity while giving him the help needed to provide for his family, allowing him to give something (work) in exchange for getting something.

Those weren't jobs. That was just wealth redistribution with strings attached. How many people who funded those wages actually got anything in return? A job is a contract where Party A pays for the labor of Party B and in return Party B's labor creates a product or service that provides something of value to Party A.

Another example of the creeping progressive state socialism. We can't even recognize it for what it was.

To be honest though, I'm not sure very many people would be willing to do manual labor in 2014 in exchange for their assistance...in much the same way that I don't think an emergency wartime draft would work today as our nation as a whole (all races, sexes, and regions) has become fat, lazy and entitled.

Ya think? 80-some years of getting something for nothing might have had something to do with that.

 

[NathanJefferson]

Just to throw my .02 in; those who say that Florida lost money are only looking at part of the picture - the other half is the MASSIVE decline in new applications while the policy was instituted. The reduction in number of new enrollees more than made up for the cost of the program.

My google foo is a little weak now or I'd dig up the article (ok, my google foo is being fubar'd by the 100,000 new stories talking about the court ruling.)

 

[88GT]

Facts don't belong in a political discussion about welfare programs. Mentioning this never gets noticed in these discussions.

You want a fact? How about this one: there is no power/authority granted to the central government to fund these programs with tax dollars collected from the people.

 

[dross]

I find it ironic to be outraged that someone accepting money taken by force from someone else, would be required to take a drug test, yet not be outraged by the initial act of taking money by force and giving it to someone else in the first place.

"I'm taking your money and giving it to Joe."
"I don't want Joe to have that money, it's mine, I worked for it. Joe doesn't work."
"Yes, but Joe NEEDS it. You don't."
"But Joe smokes dope all day. At least make him stop smoking dope before you give him my money."
"What, are you a fascist or something? That would violate Joe's rights! Joe's recreational drug use is not our business, our business is taking your money and giving it to Joe."

 

[Arthur Dent]

Just to throw my .02 in; those who say that Florida lost money are only looking at part of the picture - the other half is the MASSIVE decline in new applications while the policy was instituted. The reduction in number of new enrollees more than made up for the cost of the program.

My google foo is a little weak now or I'd dig up the article (ok, my google foo is being fubar'd by the 100,000 new stories talking about the court ruling.)

I found it for you. Almost 1,600 Welfare Applicants in Florida Decline to Undergo Drug Testing | The Partnership at Drugfree.org

It also makes note that they merely refused to take the drug test. Which doesn't automatically imply guilt.

I don't believe people should get money for staying at home, it should be a temporary measure until people can improve their situation.

 

[Arthur Dent]

You want a fact? How about this one: there is no power/authority granted to the central government to fund these programs with tax dollars collected from the people.

No comment on the cost/benefit ratio?

 

[indiucky]

Conservatives love to bash FDR's New Deal for its massive expansion of social welfare programs...but the Works Progress Administration (and as mentioned, the Civilian Conservations Corps) was extremely worthwhile IMO because it put people to work. It let a man keep his pride and dignity while giving him the help needed to provide for his family, allowing him to give something (work) in exchange for getting something.

I only have what my Grandfather (Papaw to me) told me about his short stint in the CCC. For a little background his father (my Great Grandfather) was a Republican in a part of Kentucky that leaned South (i.e. Democrat) during the unpleasantness that was the War of Northern Aggression...I have heard stories that when FDR began handing out the free food he went to Moorman, KY in his wagon with the kids all in the back and stopped when he saw the line for the cheeese and staples. He then stared at each person in the line as if he was trying to remember the faces of his neighbors that were willing to sacrifice their dignity for a free handout...Word is that after the Depression was over if any of those folks so much as spoke to him he would turn his back on them...I am not saying that is right but he was a very proud man....

Back to the CCC...Papaw decided to leave home and go to work for the CCC and did not tell his father what he was going to do...Papaw said he lasted just a couple of weeks because he said for everyone of them busting their butt to get the job done there were three sitting around smoking cigs and drinking "Shine" watching the others do the work...When payday came Papaw noticed those Goldbrickers got the same pay as he and the other guys working hard got...That was his last day working for the CCC...He went back to the farm, trapped, cut wood, and helped out..A couple of years later he hopped an ICC Train heading to Louisville and went to work at the K & I Railroad...By the time I was born we had 30 family members working for the K & I RR.....

The point being, "Make Work" sounds good but rarely if ever lives up to it's feel good promise. Human nature does not seem to allow it...

All offered IMHO base on a family ancedotal depression era tale....

 

[88GT]

No comment on the cost/benefit ratio?

You wanted to talk facts. I talked about a fact. What's the problem?

 

[spirit390]

Alot of the down state levies were cc builds and I really can't think of a single project my grandfather was on that the benefit of the project went to one person and or one business. May be wrong but most of the places he worked were for the common good. Oh well we should just keep the statist quo

 

[actaeon277]

Why would somebody turn away a person because they had an EBT card?

Same reason you might not do business with some places.
Regulations
Slow reimbursement
Etc

 

[Lex Concord]

This whole argument misses the forest for the trees. Who cares in people on the dole are taking drugs? No one should be on the dole in the first place.

90k jobs advertised in indiana 60k people gettting unemployment benefits. You do the math.

I clicked to post something to this effect, but was (for once) reading through the thread before posting.

I'm just sad I didn't see it before post 78.

ATOMonkey.

 

[88GT]

I clicked to post something to this effect, but was (for once) reading through the thread before posting.

I'm just sad I didn't see it before post 78.

ATOMonkey.

Did ya both miss Post #12?

 

[Armorer59]

I think anyone receiving any type of money from the government should have to be drug tested, from the POTUS all the way down to some one on welfare and everyone in between.

+1!!!!!!

 

[Lex Concord]

No, it just wasn't nearly as clear or harsh as I would have stated it, and as ATOMonkey did.

All welfare, regardless of recipient or recipient type, should be ended. We can't afford to maintain any of it, even if we ignore the severe moral hazard welfare represents.

 

[KLB]

There is a Marathon station on US 31 near Tipton that has a sign on the door that says
We do not accept EBT "Food stamps"

The last time I was in Claus' in Indianapolis they had a sign saying they didn't accept EBT, Debit or Credit Cards.

I don't know why they won't accept them, they just don't.

Debit and Credit Cards cost them money to accept

 

[Bunnykid68]

No, it just wasn't nearly as clear or harsh as I would have stated it, and as ATOMonkey did.

All welfare, regardless of recipient or recipient type, should be ended. We can't afford to maintain any of it, even if we ignore the severe moral hazard welfare represents.

Eliminate everyones child deduction, mortgage deduction, etc..... then

 

[Kutnupe14]

Eliminate everyones child deduction, mortgage deduction, etc..... then

They should, but the income tax would need to be chopped first.

 

[Lex Concord]

Eliminate everyones child deduction, mortgage deduction, etc..... then

Okay, but let's not confuse things more by further twisting the tax code, let's just repeal the 16th Amendment.

 

[Jacobcuvelier]

The only way I look at it is if you have to take a drug test to "earn" money from a job you should have to take a drug test to receive free money