Don't punch in a street fight?

[armedindy]

im judging the video...

 

[Dragon]

im judging the video...

Exactly, isn't that what this thread should be about?

 

[CtWest]

"I'm going to inevitably, probably more than likely,..." ummm well which is it?

 

[the1kidd03]

Exactly, isn't that what this thread should be about?

as was I

I pointed out a better method the video "instructor" could have used to indicate "why" you wouldn't want to make an initial strike the most commonly used.....sorry if you took offense to that....if I was specifically targeting a reply to anyone, I would quote their presented logic which I was addressing...as I am here in this post

 

[Dragon]

You're missing my point completely I think.

I didn't take offense to anything, my reference is to the talk about this thread being full of "e-tuffness". A thread about fighting, on a public forum, what else is it going to be about? Lillies and barbie dolls?

 

[the1kidd03]

the instructor seemed to want to demonstrate the "error" in making a right handed punch a first strike.........while I agree in that concept, he did not present accurate information as to WHY it is not the best choice.....my previous posts were pointing out a better methodology to this based on my training/experience....if you don't agree based on your training...than that's your choice...but stay on topic of the video rather than starting the pissing match which is typical of this forum

 

[the1kidd03]

You're missing my point completely I think.

I didn't take offense to anything, my reference is to the talk about this thread being full of "e-tuffness". A thread about fighting, on a public forum, what else is it going to be about? Lillies and barbie dolls?

understood....but my point was merely to point at this exact occurrance whereby such posts turn into pissing matches about egos...not necessarily discussing better methods as it is intended

 

[down3green]

I have no reason to doubt anyone's experience anymore than they have reason to believe mine...

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[oldfb]

Ughh

 

[1911 DeadHead]

...but stay on topic of the video rather than starting the pissing match which is typical of this forum

 

[esrice]

This kind of thing is easy to test for yourself.

Step 1: Find a solid wall or immoveable object.

Step 2: Punch it a few times with a balled fist, hitting as hard as is not painful.

Step 3: Strike the wall again with an open palm, hitting it as hard as is not painful.

Which one hit harder?

 

[Dragon]

understood....but my point was merely to point at this exact occurrance whereby such posts turn into pissing matches about egos...not necessarily discussing better methods as it is intended

Agreed, but so far it hadn't been a pissing contest and someone had to try to and make the thread about that rather than what it was.

What it was/is being (in my opinion after watching about 20 of his videos so far) yet another terrible instructor selling his own BS on youtube. Maybe the techniques he's selling do work for him but they're not guaranteed to work for everyone. His approach saying which techniques won't work and which will is just ridiculous.

Just watch his videos demonstrating what's wrong with using the "Thai clinch" which he demonstrates using more of a wrestlers clinch than a Thai Plum. Or his Wing Chun Straight Blast which isn't Wing Chun at all but a technique/mindset practiced by Bruce Lee during/after his development of Jeet Kune Do. Just bad stuff... bad....

 

[Dragon]

This kind of thing is easy to test for yourself.

Step 1: Find a solid wall or immoveable object.

Step 2: Punch it a few times with a balled fist, hitting as hard as is not painful.

Step 3: Strike the wall again with an open palm, hitting it as hard as is not painful.

Which one hit harder?

The wall doesn't have nerves that will render it unconscious and fall down if hit hard enough though right? Your methodology is correct but not everyone trains their hands to hit solid objects.

 

[esrice]

The wall doesn't have nerves that will render it unconscious and fall down if hit hard enough though right?

Correct.

I was merely suggesting it as a way to show which method can deliver a more powerful impact without harm to the puncher. Not saying that punching is a completely invalid technique.

As one poster said above, he punched a guy and the guy went down, which was a good thing because his hand was done after that one punch. I'd prefer to keep my hands in a fight.

 

[the1kidd03]

Agreed, but so far it hadn't been a pissing contest and someone had to try to and make the thread about that rather than what it was.

What it was/is being (in my opinion after watching about 20 of his videos so far) yet another terrible instructor selling his own BS on youtube. Maybe the techniques he's selling do work for him but they're not guaranteed to work for everyone. His approach saying which techniques won't work and which will is just ridiculous.

Just watch his videos demonstrating what's wrong with using the "Thai clinch" which he demonstrates using more of a wrestlers clinch than a Thai Plum. Or his Wing Chun Straight Blast which isn't Wing Chun at all but a technique/mindset practiced by Bruce Lee during/after his development of Jeet Kune Do. Just bad stuff... bad....

LOL...I couldn't really get through all of this video after him saying that it was "natural reaction"...so I'll think I'll pass on his others

and completely AGREED in regards to an instructor presenting ANY technique as "not working" or his own methods as "better"...a good instructor should present information to students in an UNBIASED manner and stress that all techniques have their place, it's up to the student to decide when one is appropriate over another....for this reason I generally find value in studying every other intructor's curriculum to see what other "ideas" are out there and to allow me to better devise more adequate methods through a culmination of others.....I think this is FAR better and more effective in my experience than the typical "mines' better and works, their's sucks so I won't learn it" ideaology

I teach that people should look at tactics/training as a tool belt..........you equip it with various different tools (techniques) to use for various different jobs (situations)......one tool may work better at some jobs than others, but that doesn't make the other tools any less effective....and you can NEVER have too many tools

 

[Dragon]

Correct.

I was merely suggesting it as a way to show which method can deliver a more powerful impact without harm to the puncher. Not saying that punching is a completely invalid technique.

As one poster said above, he punched a guy and the guy went down, which was a good thing because his hand was done after that one punch. I'd prefer to keep my hands in a fight.

I agree as well but just because it can happen doesn't mean it will. As I said I've broken a metacarpal using my fist but it didn't happen every time I used them. The palm is much safer and can be very effective but your fingers can be broken that way too. With a moving and resisting target your fingers could get tangled up on the way in, just ask any Judo or JJ/BJJ player.

 

[jdhaines]

I posted this in another forum. I've trained with Cecil, he really knows his stuff. He brings out some good points.

Closed-Fist Striking for Self-Preservation

Now that I've practiced some of these things, I will not be striking with an open hand. It makes a big difference when you compare a wild, swinging overhand powerful haymaker that could hit anywhere (and with a lot of force) vs a simple straight jab from a position of good cover. His idea of aim small miss small really works, and it's the basic difference between someone without any striking experience thinking of how a punching fight will go vs how someone with experience will make it go. I'm still not there, but I'm there enough to realize that they are two different things.

Another thing to think about...UFC gloves (4oz) and hand wraps don't provide near as much protection as you might think. You don't see professional MMA fighters breaking their hands every fight. You also don't see them throwing full power looping punches to the top of the other guy's head.

a good instructor should present information to students in an UNBIASED manner and stress that all techniques have their place, it's up to the student to decide when one is appropriate over anothe

Not sure I agree with this one. A student is learning from an instructor because he expects the instructor to teach him the best methods. We can all search youtube for fighting techniques. How (as a complete newbie student) are we able to tell what is best and what is not. The instructor should tell you and SHOW you why one is better than another. If he doesn't, or if he does it wrong then he is a bad instructor. You need time tested, verifiable proof to show that whatever techniques you are using are the best thing out there to your knowledge...or else you need a disclaimer. You think a BJJ black belt will present BJJ in an unbiased way? No...he thinks BJJ is the best. If he didn't he wouldn't be much of an instructor. To pick back up with your line of thinking, the student should attend various classes taught by skilled honest and biased instructors and make up your own mind once you've seen the material in the context provided by the instructor.

 

[Dragon]

I teach that people should look at tactics/training as a tool belt..........you equip it with various different tools (techniques) to use for various different jobs (situations)......one tool may work better at some jobs than others, but that doesn't make the other tools any less effective....and you can NEVER have too many tools

This is exactly how I was taught and I continue to teach. The dogmatic approach that one way is the best way, is the best way to leave you unprepared. This is why my teacher pushed me to seek out other arts and teachers to learn other skills.

 

[INMIline]

So how would the guy in the OP vid do against this guy?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE8JzdolJy4&feature=related[/ame]

 

[the1kidd03]

I posted this in another forum. I've trained with Cecil, he really knows his stuff. He brings out some good points.

Closed-Fist Striking for Self-Preservation

Now that I've practiced some of these things, I will not be striking with an open hand. It makes a big difference when you compare a wild, swinging overhand powerful haymaker that could hit anywhere (and with a lot of force) vs a simple straight jab from a position of good cover. His idea of aim small miss small really works, and it's the basic difference between someone without any striking experience thinking of how a punching fight will go vs how someone with experience will make it go. I'm still not there, but I'm there enough to realize that they are two different things.

Another thing to think about...UFC gloves (4oz) and hand wraps don't provide near as much protection as you might think. You don't see professional MMA fighters breaking their hands every fight. You also don't see them throwing full power looping punches to the top of the other guy's head.

it was a fairly good write up.....but I don't think it's appropriate to teach either open or closed as "more appropriate" than the other......as a strike is a strike....some occassions may call for an open handed one and others may call for a closed fist.....you should learn both and in training keep your hands in a "neutral" position...whereby they are not closed tightly, and are slightly open with curled fingers....this position allows for the rapid transition to EITHER closed or open striking DURING the movement of the strike, and easy retraction during which you can easily return back to "neutral" ......I especially find this to make it easier to take control of extended limbs quickly and for me personally, easier to perform a closed fist strike because I cannot bend one of my fingers at the first knuckle do to having it severed a few years ago and re-attached