Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Matter

[jeremy]

I have a question...

If I understand correctly what just passed is the repeal of the DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) Policy and not actually a change to the UCMJ. So without a Congressional change to Article 125 of the UCMJ how does the repeal of the DADT Policy make it OK for someone to serve that is openly homosexual?! The DADT Policy was the Block that Congress put into place to bypass Article 125 years ago instead of adjusting the UCMJ...

SO how is this a win for the Gay community exactly?!

 

[Expat]

You don't think they want to share their victim status do you?

I don't think most black people are concerned with maintaining their victim status.

 

[machete]

I have a question...

If I understand correctly what just passed is the repeal of the DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) Policy and not actually a change to the UCMJ. So without a Congressional change to Article 125 of the UCMJ how does the repeal of the DADT Policy make it OK for someone to serve that is openly homosexual?! The DADT Policy was the Block that Congress put into place to bypass Article 125 years ago instead of adjusting the UCMJ...

SO how is this a win for the Gay community exactly?!

look at it this way,,,a law passed by CONGRESS and signed by the PRESIDENT is a 10 on legal authority,,,the ucmj is aaaayyyyyy down the list in legal power,,,maybe a 2...

a lesser rule or law cant overcome a big law... plus,,,obama is CIC,,,look at it as if he just gave an order not to worry about gays in the military... an order from the CIC must be followed... when he makes his first openly gay general staff appointment,,,everyone not with the plan,,,will be...

 

[machete]

You can however choose to not engage in homosexual behavior.

...you can also choose not to engage in heterosexual behavior...by your thinking,,,they could make the military all gay...and throw you out for not engaging in homosexuality...

would you like to live with a boyfriend,,,and live in a gay relationship,,,to serve in the military...

these republican---conservative people are going to have to learn to stay out of other peoples bedrooms...

 

[Zimm1001]

In my opinion they should have let the men and women serving in the military make the decision. Take a vote and majority rules. They are the ones who need to live with the situation. Personally I do not care either way but I am not the one affected by it so let those who ARE affected by it make the decision. Let them vote and then pass the bill accordingly.

 

[mrjarrell]

In my opinion they should have let the men and women serving in the military make the decision. Take a vote and majority rules. They are the ones who need to live with the situation. Personally I do not care either way but I am not the one affected by it so let those who ARE affected by it make the decision. Let them vote and then pass the bill accordingly.

The DoD did exactly that with their poll of active military members and their families. The results spoke loud and clear that the majority of the military doesn't care about the issue and would be accepting of gay and lesbian soldiers. Even the USMC had a high percentage of members who had served with a gay Marine say that there would be no issues, as they had never seen any issues in the past. The majority of the members of the military spoke and their superiors listened and got behind a repeal of DADT. Now it's happened.

 

[jeremy]

look at it this way,,,a law passed by CONGRESS and signed by the PRESIDENT is a 10 on legal authority,,,the ucmj is aaaayyyyyy down the list in legal power,,,maybe a 2...

Uhhh...
No. You have that wrong the UCMJ is Actually Established through Congress and Approved with Authority to do so granted in the Constitution Article I, Section 8 to be exact....
DADT Is a Policy not a Law...
Policies, and several Laws do not Trump UCMJ...

a lesser rule or law cant overcome a big law... plus,,,obama is CIC,,,look at it as if he just gave an order not to worry about gays in the military... an order from the CIC must be followed... when he makes his first openly gay general staff appointment,,,everyone not with the plan,,,will be...

And thank you for providing a great example of an Unlawful Order...

 

[Zimm1001]

The DoD did exactly that with their poll of active military members and their families. The results spoke loud and clear that the majority of the military doesn't care about the issue and would be accepting of gay and lesbian soldiers. Even the USMC had a high percentage of members who had served with a gay Marine say that there would be no issues, as they had never seen any issues in the past. The majority of the members of the military spoke and their superiors listened and got behind a repeal of DADT. Now it's happened.

All I was saying was instead of a poll take an actual vote so no one can say the sampling was faulty or other stuff. Take a vote from everyone. Everyone gets a say. Majority wins. No controversy from either side. Matter closed. Move on.

What's the saying... 80% of statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want 100% of the time... or something like that. lolololol.
I think we have bigger things to worry about than this topic. Let those affected decide what they want and move on.

 

[machete]

Uhhh...
No. You have that wrong the UCMJ is Actually Established through Congress and Approved with Authority to do so granted in the Constitution Article I, Section 8 to be exact....
DADT Is a Policy not a Law...
Policies, and several Laws do not Trump UCMJ...

well,,,you can try to play lawyer,,,and try to weasel a way to hold onto the old law,,,or you can look at this politically...

anyone in the military who goes after gays now,,,will be made an example of...

gays are in...its done... the word to the wise will be obamas comments at the signing ceremony...

ps,,,i cant find homosexuality in the UCMJ... maybe im looking in the wrong spot... anyone who tries to make up their own UCMJ and tries to find homosexuality in there,,,is asking for a LOT of problems...

 

[patience0830]

I'd follow 'em into battle

So, you want to be behind them?



I hope you can take a joke

Y'all took that wrong. And yes I can take a joke. Most of the gays I know can take a joke too. I've known some and worked with some AND served with some. (Not a bad soldier.) But I do not have to agree with their CHOICE of lifestyle and I find the downhill spiral that the gay agenda leads to ( along with the pro-pot agenda and the pro-abortion agenda and the pro-socialism agenda ), reprehensible. And to allow people who engage in un-natural acts (be it their right to do so or not and that includes acts besides homosexual acts), should not be allowed to raise children and warp the childrens world view. If they want to serve, great. Let 'em. If they want to have civil unions, fine. Let them have the opportunity to participate in the joy of an un-civil divorce just like the rest of society. But it isn't a marriage. And children should be taught its wrong and unnatural so that when they're teens and unsure of themselves they won't be convinced by their peers or, God forbid and older man or woman that queer is normal. We're being overrun by a very LOUD 2% of the society on this issue. Make us afraid to actually SAY what is right and we'll leave them have whatever they want. If nobody is willing to judge then we have no society. We have anarchy or rule by the most victimized.
I agree its a terrible choice to make and an ugly argument to have but SOMEBODY has to stand up and have SOME standards.

And for those of you who wish to flame, have at it. My choice is based on 50 years of livin and some serious thought. In order for me to be swayed by your opinion I have to care what you think. And mostly, I don't. Merry Christmas!

 

[Indy317]

It really only affects those who are currently in the military, who may be forced to shower with people they will find out are homosexual. That would be the only issue. For those who don't want to be forced to use shower facilities with a member of the same sex who may find them attractive, or get aroused, don't join the military..it is that simple.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I have a question...

If I understand correctly what just passed is the repeal of the DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) Policy and not actually a change to the UCMJ. So without a Congressional change to Article 125 of the UCMJ how does the repeal of the DADT Policy make it OK for someone to serve that is openly homosexual?! The DADT Policy was the Block that Congress put into place to bypass Article 125 years ago instead of adjusting the UCMJ...

SO how is this a win for the Gay community exactly?!

It's not a win at all, and it's both puzzling and hilarious that anyone says it is. The state of the law will revert back to pre-Clinton days. Homosexuals were kept out of the military and discharged as a matter of course.

In my opinion they should have let the men and women serving in the military make the decision. Take a vote and majority rules. They are the ones who need to live with the situation. Personally I do not care either way but I am not the one affected by it so let those who ARE affected by it make the decision. Let them vote and then pass the bill accordingly.

I disagree. If the old man says it will be thus, so shall it be.

I think there's a difference between the gays that serve now and the ones that will be joining. I have a hard time believing the good old boys from down south will put up with limp wristed sissies. Recruiting and retention will be affected. How is TBD. And therein is the problem in my mind. Engaging in social experiments without knowing the outcome is dangerous when we're engaged in two wars.

Uhhh...
No. You have that wrong the UCMJ is Actually Established through Congress and Approved with Authority to do so granted in the Constitution Article I, Section 8 to be exact....
DADT Is a Policy not a Law...
Policies, and several Laws do not Trump UCMJ...


And thank you for providing a great example of an Unlawful Order...

Notwithstanding anything else the troll incorrectly spewed, DADT is a law. 10 USC 654. It is the section that is being repealed. That will leave the UCMJ and President's authority as CiC as the law of the land.

 

[machete]

I have a hard time believing the good old boys from down south will put up with limp wristed sissies.

that aint nothing but trolling,,,hate speech,,,an attack on civil rights,,,and that kind of horse exhaust homophobia makes all gun owners look really bad and backwards...

 

[Expat]

that aint nothing but trolling,,,hate speech,,,an attack on civil rights,,,and that kind of horse exhaust homophobia makes all gun owners look really bad and backwards...

So does an apparent inability to write in a coherent fashion.

 

[jeremy]

well,,,you can try to play lawyer,,,and try to weasel a way to hold onto the old law,,,or you can look at this politically...

anyone in the military who goes after gays now,,,will be made an example of...

gays are in...its done... the word to the wise will be obamas comments at the signing ceremony...

ps,,,i cant find homosexuality in the UCMJ... maybe im looking in the wrong spot... anyone who tries to make up their own UCMJ and tries to find homosexuality in there,,,is asking for a LOT of problems...

No not a Lawyer at all, I am a SSG in the Military.

It would not be going after the "gays" it would be enforcing an Article of the UCMJ. The Repeal of the DADT Policy changes the entire playing field. You just threw the UCMJ back into the '80's. Article 125 (Sodomy) is a prohibited activity. UCMJ is not Civilian Law. If you are not going to enforce this one Article then rescind/append that Article from the UCMJ. Just pretending it is not is not an option for the Military. It sets a potentially deadly precedent. That was the reason for the DADT Policy to begin with...

 

[machete]

No not a Lawyer at all, I am a SSG in the Military.

It would not be going after the "gays" it would be enforcing an Article of the UCMJ. The Repeal of the DADT Policy changes the entire playing field. You just threw the UCMJ back into the '80's. Article 125 (Sodomy) is a prohibited activity. UCMJ is not Civilian Law. If you are not going to enforce this one Article then rescind/append that Article from the UCMJ. Just pretending it is not is not an option for the Military. It sets a potentially deadly precedent. That was the reason for the DADT Policy to begin with...

sodomy is an unnatural activity,,,homosexuality isnt unnatural...and it will be the end of a career for anyone who says it is...

§ 925. Art. 125. Sodomy

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.

 

[grimor]

sodomy is an unnatural activity,,,homosexuality isnt unnatural...and it will be the end of a career for anyone who says it is...

§ 925. Art. 125. Sodomy

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.

And according to the military, an unnatural act is anything other than vaginal/penis penetration. So oral and anal sex is "unnatural"

 

[jeremy]

sodomy is an unnatural activity,,,homosexuality isnt unnatural...and it will be the end of a career for anyone who says it is...

§ 925. Art. 125. Sodomy

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.

Two can play the Define it game...
Sodomy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of SODOMY : anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex; also : copulation with an animal



Did you know that in the Military you can be Charged with Article 125 For Heterosexual Activities...


The key words are UNNATURAL CARNAL COPULATION...

 

[machete]

And according to the military, an unnatural act is anything other than vaginal/penis penetration. So oral and anal sex is "unnatural"

good thing the military isnt in charge of the law,,,isnt it???

 

[tenring]

Some of the posters on this board should take the time to check, in detail, just what the laws are in this humble state of ours.