Do you TRULY want a good AR-15 or do you want crap?

[Ggreen]

I blew out my gas ring earlier today.... Wait oh umm nvm

 

[AngryRooster]

This is from a friends PSA 10.5 pistol on an Anderson lower with PSA parts kit. We've both built many different rifles, normally with better quality stuff. Neither of us had tried or owned an AR pistol so we decided to try them out on the (relatively) cheap side just to see if we liked them. He did the PSA/Anderson in 5.56 and I did a PSA/INGO with Stag LPK in .300 Blackout. Everything looked great for both of them, all function checks went well.

We didn't have any problems with my 300. When it came to his we had some problems. The occasional FTF, but mostly we had problems with rounds feeding over the top of the bolt. He had 5 mags with him and it did this with 3 of them. 1 GI mag and 2 Pmags, the other 2 mags were fine. The mags worked fine in my BCM 16". He finally decided that it was a mag issue and his solution was to sell me the 3 mags and he was going to order more. I'm sure that wasn't the real issue. He's ordered more mags and said the problem hasn't returned, maybe it's possible that he actually had 3 bad mags at the same time. I've not had a problem with any of those mags in any of my other rifles, including the 8" blackout pistol.



Both of these have been fun to play with, but that's all they really are is range toys. I've decided I like the short 5.56. My plans are for a BCM 11.5" on my Crusader pistol lower with plans to SBR it in the very near future. I may upgrade to the BCM 300 sometime after that but it won't be until I get good with reloading and casting for the round. I have the dies now, will be picking up 500 - 1000 pieces of brass this weekend. I still need to get a NOE mold and do powder research. Will probably only be reloading subs and stick with factory ammo for full pressure loads.

BCM's have been our go to rifles for a long time. My wife built her own lower, a CMMG, and has a 16" BCM carbine on it. Her range toy is a PSA 9mm upper on a CMMG lower with a permanent Hahn mag block for Colt mags. We have a scoped 20" BCM on one of our INGO lowers with a BCM parts kit. My main rifle is a complete BCM 16" mid-length. Right now I have the ALG trigger in it but have a Larue MBT on order. I put one in my crusader lower that I ordered last black friday and love it. Probably going to replace ALL the AR triggers with the Larue when I can catch them on sale. There's also a factory anodized OD green Colt in the collection as well. It doesn't come out to play much, we like the others better.

I'll try to get some pictures this weekend if I remember. I've been meaning to put some in the AR picture thread for a while.

 

[Woobie]

DPMS AR-10.
PSA AR-15.
Both low round count. Both were gas ring related.

Now that is interesting. Did the rings crack, or didn't seal correctly?

 

[churchmouse]

Or a POS springfield 1911 in a fighting pistol class

Man thats just cold "TT"...Cold.....

 

[churchmouse]

Now that is interesting. Did the rings crack, or didn't seal correctly?

It was the seal up. The bore was not well finished and the rings would not seat up.

 

[Woobie]

It was the seal up. The bore was not well finished and the rings would not seat up.

So it was really a crap bolt carrier. There's no excuse for that.

 

[churchmouse]

So it was really a crap bolt carrier. There's no excuse for that.

Exactly. They would both run through the 1st mag and then fail to feed. Swap out the BCG and off to the races.

 

[seedubs1]

PSA Premium mp/HPT with a standard mi-spec phosphate finish???

Those are well known to be tool craft if so. They’re straight mil-spec and are issued to the .gov for use in m4’s. I’d trust those as much as a bcm, Noveske, dd, LMT, or other quality BCG.

Anything other than PSA Premium with the standard mil-spec phosphate finish, I would absolutely not trust and put it in the “range toy” category.

Exactly. They would both run through the 1st mag and then fail to feed. Swap out the BCG and off to the races.

 

[mammynun]

PSA Premium mp/HPT with a standard mi-spec phosphate finish???

Those are well known to be tool craft if so. They’re straight mil-spec and are issued to the .gov for use in m4’s. I’d trust those as much as a bcm, Noveske, dd, LMT, or other quality BCG.

Anything other than PSA Premium with the standard mil-spec phosphate finish, I would absolutely not trust and put it in the “range toy” category.

That's my main problem with PSA these days; keeping track of what level/grade is being called what.

 

[AngryRooster]

That's my main problem with PSA these days; keeping track of what level/grade is being called what.

And that their "premium" isn't what it used to be. I just re-read the Arfcom thread about the BCG's from several years ago. Ticked me off just as much now as it did back then. The thread is a train wreck now with most of the pictures gone, especially since PB decided to screw everyone with their new hosting fees. I'm glad I saved the entire thread as a file. As much as we like our PSA range toys, nothing from them will ever be more than that. My wife's PSA 9mm came with a bolt, I ordered my 300 without because I still had a BCG I won here on INGO a few years ago that needed a home. I believe it's an AGS.

 

[Expat]

Hmmm... so I shouldn't own nice equipment unless I make at least tier 3 operator level...

 

[Ggreen]

Hmmm... so I shouldn't own nice equipment unless I make at least tier 3 operator level...

does it make sense for my gun to be mil spec if my gut is beer spec.

 

[Expat]

does it make sense for my gun to be mil spec if my gut is beer spec.

So, you will give me a list of gear that is acceptable for me to own?

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

does it make sense for my gun to be mil spec if my gut is beer spec.

So, you will give me a list of gear that is acceptable for me to own?

I can help with that. Maybe a 6pk of good IPA, a few cans of some domestic Lager, and a growler of Stout. That should get you started...

 

[Alpo]

PSA Premium mp/HPT with a standard mi-spec phosphate finish???

Those are well known to be tool craft if so. They’re straight mil-spec and are issued to the .gov for use in m4’s. I’d trust those as much as a bcm, Noveske, dd, LMT, or other quality BCG.

Anything other than PSA Premium with the standard mil-spec phosphate finish, I would absolutely not trust and put it in the “range toy” category.

The premiums with FN barrels are excellent uppers! The only problem (not a PSA upper) I've ever had is with ammo on 300 Blackout. PNW match ammo functioned flawlessly and was highly accurate. A well-known reload wouldn't cycle the bolt. Not enough gas. But, that's why we have adjustable gas blocks. In this case, I just stuck with quality ammo.

 

[seedubs1]

Agreed. The FN barreled uppers with Toolcraft BCGs have quality components. I don’t trust PSA to assemble them properly, and I’d take them apart and make sure everything is torqued to spec. But the parts themselves are OK.

The rest of PSA’s non-premium stuff is range toy quality.

The premiums with FN barrels are excellent uppers! The only problem (not a PSA upper) I've ever had is with ammo on 300 Blackout. PNW match ammo functioned flawlessly and was highly accurate. A well-known reload wouldn't cycle the bolt. Not enough gas. But, that's why we have adjustable gas blocks. In this case, I just stuck with quality ammo.

 

[Ggreen]

Hmmm... so I shouldn't own nice equipment unless I make at least tier 3 operator level...

I read your comment backwards. Everyone can own what they want, I've got high end gear and I'm definitely no operator. I don't think majority of shooters would know the difference, but those of us dedicated enough to line on a forum can probably point out small nuances and upgrades over mil spec

 

[T-DOGG]

Who on here has actually had an AR quit on them? What happened?

I've only had one quit on me, and it was a Colt. But I hardly blame that old worn out thing for having a pin walk out.

I've also only had one quit on me, it was a standard PSA upper (not Freedom and not Premium) a few years ago. The firing pin broke the tip off during non-formal training drills at a friends house. It had maybe a few hundred rounds through it.

 

[T-DOGG]

I will admit, I've become a BCM whore. I like a lot of their products, I like their company and I know they have a good reputation for putting out a quality product.

I have owned a lot of stuff over the years, both cheap and high quality, anybody who hangs out in the classifieds knows this. I don't know if I will like something until I own it and run it. Then I will decide for myself, no matter what the general consensus is on said product.

Here are two examples of "you get what you paid for":
1) I think American Defense makes an inferior product compared to Bobro in regards to optics mounts. The first ADM product I bought was the last one also. It was an MRO mount. The quick detach lever would not latch properly, I had to fix it myself to get it to work while I played email tag with ADM. They kept saying they were shipping me the new latch, but I had to keep emailing them saying it didn't arrive. It took several weeks to get the replacement part. So, despite numerous online recommendations, they won't get my business again. I have owned probably 6 or 7 Bobro mounts, far better design and zero issues ever. But.....Bobro comes with a price.
2) Anderson stripped lowers. Had a friend purchase a stripped lower from them and their LPK. He put it together, but had issues. He asked me to investigate. First problem was the grip would not install all the way as the grip screw was bottoming out before the grip was fully tightened. Found out that Anderson did not cut the threads all the way, they stopped short. Second problem, the trigger would not reset during function checks. Found out the hammer was not machined correctly where it contacted the disconnector.

I hate making decisions based on opinions of people I don't know, but sometimes that is all I have to go from and will roll the dice. There is a small circle of people on Ingo that I know and trust, some are in this thread, their words I take more into consideration than others.

I am not an expert or an operator, but I have learned a great deal from trial and error and still learn every day. I am an inherent cheap ass, I like cheap prices, but I don't like cheap products. Cheap products are usually a waste of money, rolling the dice on cheap products is usually a waste of time AND money.

So I will ask this question. How many complaints have we seen online about the quality of BCM? How many have we seen about PSA or other "budget" builds? Sure, you can put together a few of those rifles for the same price as one BCM or other high quality manufacturer. I personally would rather have one rifle that works and therefore gives me confidence rather than 3 budget build rifles that "might" work.

 

[walleyepw]