Do the 4 rules always apply?

[2A_Tom]

Originally Posted by MohawkSlim
If you're trained well enough you can safely make your own rules.

It's this level of egotism that's scary.

This bears repeating.

 

[BugI02]

Good grief. Do you ever stop putting your foot in your mouth? So now civilians are too dumb to handle guns safely without a different set of rules?


It's this level of egotism that's scary.


I sure there's no study of ND's but I think the Hurt Report is somewhat applicable. It showed that there is a marked increase in motorcycle collisions for those with 2-5 (IIRC) years of experience. The reason being is that riders with some experience overestimated their skills and underestimated the risk. After five years of experience, riders realize that yes, they are vulernable and safety is key for all riders.

Or after 5 years the ones with no chops are overrepresented among the maimed or dead

ETA: When you don't know your limitations on a bike quite often you only kill yourself. I would expect that attitude around firearms would result in predominantly others being killed when it all comes off the rails.

 

[bwframe]

I've spent the past 8 years taking a fair amount of firearms training classes and participating in various competitive shooting sports. I wouldn't dare make any blanket statements, but some of the worst, sloppy dangerous, gun handlers I've ever seen have been "trained" in military service.

As always, I thank those who served. However, military service does not make one immune to Dunning–Kruger effect. It's not terribly unusual to run into this, especially concerning gun handling.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If you're trained well enough you can safely make your own rules.

And yet we have another high speed operator who was operating operationally in his disregard for the Four Rules. So well trained (see below).

INGO rated Z for graphic photos of the operator's injuries.

PSA: Always Follow the Golden Rules of Gun Safety - The Firearm Blog

 

[indiucky]

And yet we have another high speed operator who was operating operationally in his disregard for the Four Rules. So well trained (see below).

INGO rated Z for graphic photos of the operator's injuries.

PSA: Always Follow the Golden Rules of Gun Safety - The Firearm Blog

Wow.....That made my hand hurt....

 

[printcraft]

And yet we have another high speed operator who was operating operationally in his disregard for the Four Rules. So well trained (see below).

INGO rated Z for graphic photos of the operator's injuries.

PSA: Always Follow the Golden Rules of Gun Safety - The Firearm Blog

Was his beard injured?

Wow.....That made my hand hurt....

Meh, Now I want a jelly donut.....

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Was his beard injured?

Valid point. The post was also remiss in the type of pants worn by Stumpy the Operator remains unanswered.

Controlling Question: 5.11 or Crye Precision?

Additional Question: Were suppressor burns present?

 

[VERT]

And yet we have another high speed operator who was operating operationally in his disregard for the Four Rules. So well trained (see below).

INGO rated Z for graphic photos of the operator's injuries.

PSA: Always Follow the Golden Rules of Gun Safety - The Firearm Blog

So somebody pointed a gun at themselves and pressed the trigger. That is not somebody making up their own rules. At no time during all the discussion in this thread did I ever read or interrupt that a member here advocated pointing a gun at yourself and pulling the trigger. Seems to me there only needs to be two rules.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So somebody pointed a gun at themselves and pressed the trigger.

Like an operator.

That is not somebody making up their own rules.

Not someone following the Four Rules.

Stumpy the Operator is a rebel. That's why chicks, mostly with missing body parts, dig him.

At no time during all the discussion in this thread did I ever read or interrupt that a member here advocated pointing a gun at yourself and pulling the trigger.

Just other people in the gun shop.

Seems to me there only needs to be two rules.

It's a darn thing no one is making up their own rules on INGO.

 

[BugI02]

Valid point. The post was also remiss in the type of pants worn by Stumpy the Operator remains unanswered.

Controlling Question: 5.11 or Crye Precision?

Additional Question: Were suppressor burns present?

I'm going to go with 5.11. And article said muzzle loader, so I'm gonna go with no suppressor

 

[indiucky]

Stumpy the Operator is a rebel. That's why chicks, mostly with missing body parts, dig him.

I heard he hooked up with this gal.....

If he does lose a digit should we change the term "operator" to "surgeon"?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Even these operators know not to point guns at themselves or others, even if in a gun shoppe.

 

[indiucky]

Even these operators know not to point guns at themselves or others, even if in a gun shoppe.

And I bet they are wearing skates....Nice....

Side note....The year before I was born mom was an operator for Ma Bell in Louisville...She was in her early 20's November 22, 1963. She said they were working and every light on the switchboard went on at once...She said she had never seen anything like it....They were all younger girls enamored with JFK and mom said she grabbed the first line and picked it up and a lady said, "Is it true??? Is JFK dead?" Mom said she didn't know and about then their supervisor came in with tears in her eyes and told them the news...Mom had got to shake his hand not long before for the dedication of the Kennedy Bridge...A group of girls from Bell were allowed to go down for the dedication ceremony and she weaseled her way in to get a handshake...

And I was born 9 months later to the day...Which says something about how folks in my family deal with grief...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

And I bet they are wearing skates....Nice....

Tactical skates.

 

[Wild Deuce]

*

 

[Kirk Freeman]

We're still debating this???

Because highly-trained operators are still shooting themselves.

Got to teach these highly-trained operators that obeying the Four Rules is cool, even if your beard is righteous.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm going to go with 5.11. And article said muzzle loader, so I'm gonna go with no suppressor

The Operator is strong with you.

 

[NHT3]

We're still debating this???

For crying out loud, if you need that "All guns are always loaded" rule to make it through the day .... then ...


I can't believe this thing is still alive....
Yes we are still debating and the most astonishing aspect of it all is that the original question wasn't ABOUT the 4 rules or if the were all relevant.
I'm embarrassed that I instigated this monster.. If I had just used a different title, maybe................ Just like politicians, ask one question and they give you the answer that they want and never address the original question.. It's INGO, why would I expect anything different
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member [/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]
Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer
[FONT=&amp]“[/FONT]Safety is not something that you hold in your hands, it happens between your ears” Col. Jeff Cooper

 

[VERT]

I actually had to go back and look at the original question. OP specifically was asking the question in reference to gun shops. Probably not the venue to butt in as a know it all because most people will just shut you out. Now if a teachable moment presents itself then take the opportunity. The OP will know the time. Now if a person is just being stupid that is another matter. Very likely the store owner will say something. Gunshows and gunshops present a special challenge because of the close proximity of people. I rarely attend gunshows and my local shop is really great about doing everything they can to follow all safety rules.

For the record guns on benches with actions open, guns with chamber flags, disassembled guns, blue guns and guns in glass cases don't give me the willies. Guns that are not being handled for the most part don't bother me either unless I see them in crappy holsters or they are just laying there unattended. Loaded or unloaded is irrelevant and does not mean that we should be pointing guns at each other. Muzzle Direction and Trigger Discipline.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Probably not the venue to butt in as a know it all because most people will just shut you out.

If some a-hole in a gun shoppe or a gun show points a gun at you, you let the stupid f**k know what he is doing wrong and how to behave.

There is no better time to teach them than right then.

Just how many gun shop/show shooting threads do we need on INGO to understand this? The Four Rules always apply. If you see something, say something.