Did world war 3 just start?

[mrjarrell]

Putin admits on TV that Russian troops were in Ukraine prior to their seizing Crimea. No reason to doubt that they're still there, too.

Putin's remarks during national Q&A raise fears of future moves against Ukraine - The Washington Post

 

[smokingman]

Putin admits on TV that Russian troops were in Ukraine prior to their seizing Crimea. No reason to doubt that they're still there, too.

Putin's remarks during national Q&A raise fears of future moves against Ukraine - The Washington Post

You are aware per the treaty Russia had with Ukraine they where allowed troops in Crimea?I do not see this as anything new.They where allowed up to 25,000 troops in Crimea,and from my understanding never had that many(even now the UN estimates 16,000 Russian troops in Crimea).

Or are you saying they have troops in Ukraine outside of Crimea?When your article clearly states they do not?Even the latest UN council investigation says the separatist are locals.
So the UN is wrong and the deal to deescalate that has been reached today is already void?

 

[mrjarrell]

The Crimea was part of the Ukraine till Putin's agents provocateur managed to get separatists riled up and overthrew the government during a time of turmoil. He had special forces there specifically to rile things up and get Crimea torn away from Ukraine.

 

[smokingman]

The Crimea was part of the Ukraine till Putin's agents provocateur managed to get separatists riled up and overthrew the government during a time of turmoil. He had special forces there specifically to rile things up and get Crimea torn away from Ukraine.

You are aware Crimea was an Autonomous region within Ukraine?That is was formerly part of Russia,and that the majority of the population speaks Russian,and supported politicians that where pro Russian since joining Ukraine in 1992?
I think the loss of just one life says quite a bit about what the people of Crimea think of being a part of Russia.


I would be willing to wager that sooner rather than later the US and our media will turn on the new government in Kiev.When we do,I will say told you so.

This whole thing has nothing to do with Ukraine.It has to do with global influence.Ukraine just happens to be located in geography that makes it desirable.

 

[mrjarrell]

The far right and anti semites are in bed with Putin. Don't count on those fliers against the jews to be false, just yet.

East Ukraine crisis and the 'fascist' matrix - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

 

[smokingman]

The far right and anti semites are in bed with Putin. Don't count on those fliers against the jews to be false, just yet.

East Ukraine crisis and the 'fascist' matrix - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

No mention of Svoboda's ties to Neo Nazis in Germany,France,Greece...
Oh,I get it.Only the OTHER side has evil nazi nationalist.Ours are reformed and tolerant(to bad the EU Parliament and our own embassy said otherwise in 2012).
We need some more lipstick over here,and please get the German news papers to stop talking about Svoboda saying they are the fourth Reich.

 

[mrjarrell]

Svoboda makes up a minuscule number in the political machine. Insignificant to anyone but the Russians who are using them to propagandise and make excuses for an invasion. Sorry you've taken their hook. The jews of Ukraine certainly don't fear them.

 

[BogWalker]

You are aware Crimea was an Autonomous region within Ukraine?That is was formerly part of Russia,and that the majority of the population speaks Russian,and supported politicians that where pro Russian since joining Ukraine in 1992?
I think the loss of just one life says quite a bit about what the people of Crimea think of being a part of Russia.

New Mexico used to be a part of Mexico, much of its population is of Mexican descent, many people there speak Spanish, and there is a history of politicians there having favorable attitudes towards Mexico. I guess that means we should give New Mexico back to Mexico.

 

[smokingman]

Svoboda makes up a minuscule number in the political machine. Insignificant to anyone but the Russians who are using them to propagandise and make excuses for an invasion. Sorry you've taken their hook. The jews of Ukraine certainly don't fear them.

Svoboda do hold the presidency,Ministry of Defense,Department of agriculture,Prosecutor general,Director of Intelligence,Director of the press,Department of Finance,State department of surplus lands and funds,Energy department,Control and oversight department,and even the Parliamentary security chief.Combined with the Fatherland party (88 members) and Sovereign Ukraine party(36 members) Svoboda(35 members)the ultra nationalist do in fact have a majority of Parliament.Also if you watched the video I posted earlier you will note MANY of the party of Regions members(88 members) are in fact missing,with some being publicly arrested for supporting the former president,but yet they are still voting.In the video you can see Svoboda and Fatherland party members using the voting cards of missing Regions members and voting for them.Oh,and all 33 members of the communist party are all currently under house arrest.
So again tell me how they are minuscule when they control nearly every official part of the government?
Here is a nice link to Svoboda where you can read what they are about posted by the party itself.All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" program - "Program for the Protection of Ukrainians". Svoboda - Ukrainian nationalist political party

 

[Dead Duck]

New Mexico used to be a part of Mexico, much of its population is of Mexican descent, many people there speak Spanish, and there is a history of politicians there having favorable attitudes towards Mexico. I guess that means we should give New Mexico back to Mexico.

Same as Texas - "Remember The Alamo"

 

[smokingman]

New Mexico used to be a part of Mexico, much of its population is of Mexican descent, many people there speak Spanish, and there is a history of politicians there having favorable attitudes towards Mexico. I guess that means we should give New Mexico back to Mexico.

Slight difference.THe people in New Mexico are US citizens.The people in Crimea are not considered citizens of Ukraine,and never will be.You should read the Svoboda Citizenship act...ill give some highlights(it has already passed on 3/12/2014 just so you know making every person in Crimea a non citizen).


1. Citizenship Act, under which citizenship will be given only to those persons who were born in Ukraine or are ethnically Ukrainian.IE not of Russian Heritage.
Allow people born in Ukraine from foreigners or stateless persons to acquire Ukrainian citizenship upon reaching age of majority only under the conditions of Ukrainian language fluency(So much for the 90% of Crimea who speak only Russian), knowledge of Ukrainian history and content of the Constitution of Ukraine.
10. Ban the adoption of Ukrainian children by foreigners.

So I guess if we decided New Mexico citizens where not longer allowed to speak Spanish,and we required they be of British decent to be citizens then it might be comparable.

 

[T.Lex]

Well, the game continues. As the saying goes, Putin is playing chess, and we're playing checkers.

US Troops now headed to Poland and the Baltics. About 600 soldiers. Putin has had 40k+ either on the border of Ukraine or in the Crimean (depending on how you count) for a month. Just now, we're sending about 1% of that.
US troops arrive in Poland for exercises across Eastern Europe amid Ukraine crisis | Fox News

"We're looking at trying to keep this rotational presence persistent throughout the rest of this year," Kirby told reporters, adding that over time the exercises could expand to other countries.

Wow. We're going to rotate 600 troops in and out over the next year. That's impressive.....

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well, the game continues. As the saying goes, Putin is playing chess, and we're playing checkers.

US Troops now headed to Poland and the Baltics. About 600 soldiers. Putin has had 40k+ either on the border of Ukraine or in the Crimean (depending on how you count) for a month. Just now, we're sending about 1% of that.
US troops arrive in Poland for exercises across Eastern Europe amid Ukraine crisis | Fox News



Wow. We're going to rotate 600 troops in and out over the next year. That's impressive.....

My money is on the 600. They got double what the Spartans had, and the Ruskies couldn't take down a bunch of goat herders with Mosins.

 

[avboiler11]

Do you need really multiple divisions of armor and infantry to achieve deterrence, or does a small contingent of US personnel suffice when we've got more than a decade of continuous experience of getting manpower and material into theater, not to mention European-based air assets?

Let's be real, 600 troops wouldn't amount to so much as a roadblock for a major Russian advance.

But that's not really their purpose, now is it?

 

[T.Lex]

@ Kut - LMAO

Heck, the Russians lost to the Japanese a little over a hundred years ago! How much trouble could they be?

I'm more than a little concerned that those 600 are really little more than bait. It is Obama hedging his bet that the Russians won't really invade an area that has NATO forces. If some (or all) of those 600 end up on the wrong side of a red line drawn in Moscow, it will provide justification for greater military effort. Whether Obama would deliver is anyone's guess.

@AV -

No, their purpose is to symbolic. It isn't meant to be effective, compelling, inspiring, comforting, or anything else. Just symbolic.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Do you need really multiple divisions of armor and infantry to achieve deterrence, or does a small contingent of US personnel suffice when we've got more than a decade of continuous experience of getting manpower and material into theater, not to mention European-based air assets?

Let's be real, 600 troops wouldn't amount to so much as a roadblock for a major Russian advance.

But that's not really their purpose, now is it?

It's putting them in harm's way, like T. LEX said. Barry may be fouling things up, but this might be a smart move. The Russians aren't going to engage an area (at least I hope they're that smart) with American militarily personnel present. It puts to rest the idea that we won't support other NATO members, 'cause if Russia attacks, we're going to respond with something a little more substantial than goofy words. Kinda a bold move.

 

[OneShotFOGE]

Its just using actions not words, that invading Poland would be an actual red line. Not a theoretical one. Still, its just another piece that makes the whole situation even more volatile between two Nuclear superpowers.

 

[T.Lex]

It's putting them in harm's way, like T. LEX said. Barry may be fouling things up, but this might be a smart move. The Russians aren't going to engage an area (at least I hope they're that smart) with American militarily personnel present. It puts to rest the idea that we won't support other NATO members, 'cause if Russia attacks, we're going to respond with something a little more substantial than goofy words. Kinda a bold move.

Much respect, of course, but I think we disagree on this more than we agree.

This is not a bold move. This is a minimal effort move. This is when your mom tells you to clean your room and you make the bed, but leave all the toys scattered on the floor. This is when you need to change your oil and you just add a quart.

I'm not convinced that if the Russians do attack, we'll do anything more than goofy words.

In fact, this may turn out to be a bad gamble. The only way this works is if the Russians aren't planning on invading anyway. Then, he can proclaim Peace in Our Time.

The problem comes if the Russians are planning to attack - which is obviously a worst case scenario. The US troops sent now would not be a military deterrent, only a political one. If they're going to attack, Putin won't care about a political deterrent. Militarily, as great as those troops are, they won't move the needle one bit militarily. Plus, what kind of ROE will they have? We've all seen that the Russian troops have no insignia. So, the GIs will have guys approaching them without noticeable markings, speaking a language they don't understand, with AKs that look exactly like the AKs of our allies.

I'll say it now, the orders will be not to shoot, and they'll be either taken captive or there'll be another Benghazi, with plausible deniability that Russian troops were not responsible.

And... Obama will do nothing.

The good news is that WWIII will be avoided for another couple years. I guess that's good news.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

RAF Jet Chases Russian Planes Away From UK

 

[OneShotFOGE]

RAF Jet Chases Russian Planes Away From UK

Just Russia testing response times/ reactions. They did this recently in Finland, if my memory serves me.