Did world war 3 just start?

[JS1911]

Have no fear, soon enough bobo the idiot emperor will say something along the lines of "Stop that Putin, or I'll hit you with my purse!" Then all will be well.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I never made that fallacious argument.

That's exactly what you said. I'll remind you:

Putin is unstoppable at this point without an all-out military confrontation. What's more, he knows it. Baltic states had better be paying attention.

So it is implied, by you, that Putin is stoppable "with" an all-out military confrontation. I implied earlier that Putin could be dissuaded by the EU, if they were willing to go "all in with ecoonomic sanctions, but stated they wouldn't do so because it would, although to a much lesser degree, hurt their respective economies.

You then stated:

Well, why not? If the EU really wants Russia to take a particular (read: different) course, and if you are correct that the EU can coerce Russia to take that course, then why aren't they doing it?

And if the EU really doesn't want Russia to take a different course, why not?

So, using your logic, if Putin is unstoppable without military force, "then why aren't they doing it?" They must really want Russia to have Ukraine, OR (and this is probably the correct answer), they are unwilling to "do what it takes" militarily. Just as they are unwilling to "do what it takes" with sanctions.

Don't be gettin' all in a huff because your own logic bit you in the butt.

 

[mrjarrell]

Lifted from a link in another thread. Putin's already laying the groundwork for an invasion, it looks like.

Former Top Putin Advisor Sounds The Alarm: Putin Has Already Declared War On Kiev - Forbes

 

[9mmfan]

And my reply from the above thread. Just recon forces to advance work for eventual take over. Putin wants to be the next Stalin.

 

[mrjarrell]

Looks like the spec ops guys are really trying to up the ante.

Ukrainian Servicemen Reported Shot By Masked Soldiers In Crimea : The Two-Way : NPR

 

[smokingman]

Looks like the spec ops guys are really trying to up the ante.

Ukrainian Servicemen Reported Shot By Masked Soldiers In Crimea : The Two-Way : NPR

Sniper Detained After Opening Fire On Ukrainian And Crimean Soldiers Eurasia Review

According to local media, the scene of the shooting is a small Ukrainian military topography research center, and the majority of the staff who work there are women. The center’s area is rather small, and servicemen have only six machine guns and three Makarov guns to provide security. The center reportedly decided to join up with Crimea and Russia and was preparing paperwork to go over.
Crimean Prime Minister Sergey Aksyonov told Russia’s Channel One that this attack is reminiscent of the Maidan sniper shootings.
“At the moment two people are dead as a result of a provocation, a sabotage. The situation allows me to conclude that the same techniques that were used at Maidan are being used now because most likely the snipers fired on both sides – one Ukrainian serviceman and one man from self-defense forces of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea were killed.”

 

[ArcadiaGP]

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) - Ukrainian official: Government making plan to pull troops from Crimea as Russia takes control

 

[smokingman]

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) - Ukrainian official: Government making plan to pull troops from Crimea as Russia takes control

Probably a great thing.Honestly Russia taking over Crimea is probably a good thing.Svoboda wants an ethnically pure Ukraine,that speaks Ukrainian.I do not think they really envisioned Crimea as ever being a part of that.Russia kept a port is has had for 270+ years and Crimean's of Russian heritage feel like they have been returned to their home country.Right now if things could be stabilized in Kiev and a more representative government of the people of Ukraine comes into power I think this could be over with little loss of life and no further conflict.
The problem will be elections in Kiev at this point,and how does the west balance EU/Nato membership if Svoboda retains power after those elections and the pro nationalist(Neo nazi's) movement gains more popular support.The new elections will be key,and I seriously doubt Svoboda retains power or that it will give up the power they currently have willingly even if they lose the elections.
I think Russia steps back at this point.I do not think Putin has any desire to control the rest of Ukraine.It would be another Afghanistan for them.Much of northern and western Ukraine sided with the Nazi's in fighting Russia during world war two,and I am sure the leadership in Russia knows they do not want to become part of Russia.
Crimea was different ,as the people their speak Russian and it was formerly part of Russia.Crimea may have been part of Ukraine(since 1992)but it was always an autonomous region with close ties to Moscow.The rest of Ukraine I think Putin will leave to the west to sort out,and yes with Svoboda in charge it will be one hell of a mess.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Haha ****.

Moscow now signaling "concern" for Russians in Estonia.

Moscow signals concern for Russians in Estonia | Reuters

Looks like Estonia may be next on the land grab :P

 

[smokingman]

Haha ****.

Moscow now signaling "concern" for Russians in Estonia.

Moscow signals concern for Russians in Estonia | Reuters

Looks like Estonia may be next on the land grab :P

I seriously doubt it.But Estonia does have some pretty barbaric language laws.To work in the country you must speak the native language.
“The so-often-cursed Soviet power never applied any restrictions on languages. Estonians were free to educate in their language. Nowadays the authorities have almost banned Russian from schools. Besides, some Russian communities don’t have qualified teachers who can teach physics or chemistry in Estonian,” Sergey Tseulin
In the latest twist, five workers at an orphanage were fired for not being able to speak Estonian to the children. That is in a town, where 96 per cent of the population are ethnic Russians.

“I don’t want to sound rude, but as long as we live in this country we have to live by the law. And I fired those people because they had been warned, but did nothing,” Mare Vialja, director of the Narva orphanage.

Human rights activists acknowledge the rule of law, but stress that in the language case it is not applied properly.

“The law doesn’t observe any difference between Narva – where almost everyone sees Russian as their native language – and other parts, where most of the people speak Estonian. And with such disproportion we can talk of direct language discrimination and indirect ethnic discrimination,” said Vadim Poleschuk, a human rights activist.

Pointing this out while Russia has the world stage so to speak is political to be sure,but I do not think Russia has any intent of invading Estonia,or Poland,or the rest of Ukraine....or destroying NATO ect...

 

[Kutnupe14]

Haha ****.

Moscow now signaling "concern" for Russians in Estonia.

Moscow signals concern for Russians in Estonia | Reuters

Looks like Estonia may be next on the land grab :P

Estonia is a part of NATO. He takes one step in that country, and our boys, along those from 26 other nation, will be going to war.

 

[mrjarrell]

Sniper Detained After Opening Fire On Ukrainian And Crimean Soldiers Eurasia Review

According to local media, the scene of the shooting is a small Ukrainian military topography research center, and the majority of the staff who work there are women. The center’s area is rather small, and servicemen have only six machine guns and three Makarov guns to provide security. The center reportedly decided to join up with Crimea and Russia and was preparing paperwork to go over.
Crimean Prime Minister Sergey Aksyonov told Russia’s Channel One that this attack is reminiscent of the Maidan sniper shootings.
“At the moment two people are dead as a result of a provocation, a sabotage. The situation allows me to conclude that the same techniques that were used at Maidan are being used now because most likely the snipers fired on both sides – one Ukrainian serviceman and one man from self-defense forces of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea were killed.”

And you believe this ****? You're a really gullible person if you do. Or you just have a delusional love for the Russian thugocracy.

 

[mrjarrell]

 

[mrjarrell]

Looks like the minorities, even the jews, are siding with the "far right, fascists". Then again, maybe they know something that lovers of Russian propaganda don't, hm?

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/163972/jews-in-maidan

 

[mrjarrell]

So, it was fascists on the Maidan? Only to the Russian propagandists and their believers.

Fascism, Russia, and Ukraine by Timothy Snyder | The New York Review of Books

 

[88GT]

Haha ****.

Moscow now signaling "concern" for Russians in Estonia.

Moscow signals concern for Russians in Estonia | Reuters

Looks like Estonia may be next on the land grab :P

The next time someone on INGO asks me if I'm clairvoyant, I can honestly answer in the affirmative.

Putin is unstoppable at this point without an all-out military confrontation. What's more, he knows it. Baltic states had better be paying attention.

 

[smokingman]

And you believe this ****? You're a really gullible person if you do. Or you just have a delusional love for the Russian thugocracy.

What is not to believe?
What possible motivation could Russia have to kill one Ukranian soldier and one local Crimean defense force member they control the entire peninsula.
I have no love for Russia.I served in the United States Military,and support our government.However from the start of all of this the propaganda our own government was spewing was palpable.From leaked diplomatic cables planning a coup and admission of 5 billion spent to destabilize the Ukrainian government. Followed by our government support of Neo Nazi's that less than two years ago we where critical of(our embassy in Ukraine),and the EU parliament asked no Ukrainan democratic party to work with(Svoboda)I can not help but question our governments account of what is happening.

Some things being reported in our media are out right lies such as the state department saying no member of Svoboda is in the Ukranian parliament,when in fact they now have a majority.Even before the coup Svoboda accounted for 10% of the parliament.

Then the whole notion that we support the people and democracy,when the reality is we support what is in our interest and against Russian interests.Does in matter that most of Crimea did not want to be ruled by Neo Nazi's who just outlawed their native language and dissolved their autonomous rule and any representation they had in the government? Of course they have no right to choose to join Russia or even form their own country...no that has to be illegal as it is not in the interest of our government. When it is in our interest it is legal such as Bosnia.The least we can do is not be so bluntly and boldly hypocrites.I see no difference in the self determination of the people in Yugoslavia other than they supported our government not Russia.Legally that was approved in international law,why should Crimea be different?

I do not like our government supporting neo nazi's who say they will have nuclear weapons in 3-6 months.They already have the reactors up and running(the largest in Europe) and they are right they probably could be a nuclear power very quickly.I think it is a very dangerous game our government is playing with long term implications for world stability.Already Golden Dawn has a branch in New York(Greek neo nazi's)and they of course called for aid for the new Ukrainian government.I think the whole approach to try and limit Russian influence at any cost is wrong,and am not afraid to say so,and when the state department openly lies about Svoboda not controlling the Ukrainian government how am I to trust a damn thing they say about the situation?

As far as Svoboda being Neo Nazi's I posted what the EU and our embassy said less than two years ago in this thread already,but I will post it again.Not to mention the Neo Nazi flag currently flying in the capitol building in Kiev(already posted those pictures as well).
Link to the EU Parliament page if you care to read the full text.Elections failed to bring Ukraine closer to the EU, say MEPs
MEPs voice concerns about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine which led to the election of the "Svoboda" Party to the Parliament of Ukraine. The EP recalls that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU’s fundamental values and principles and it appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Ukrainian Parliament not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with this party.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-force...1--finance.html;_ylt=AwrBJR__AipTeUIABwPQtDMD

Russian forces seize Ukraine naval bases

 

[mrjarrell]

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-force...1--finance.html;_ylt=AwrBJR__AipTeUIABwPQtDMD

Russian forces seize Ukraine naval bases

We used to call that a Fort Sumter moment. Nowadays it's just cleaning out the fascists.

 

[OneShotFOGE]

It amazes me how little tv coverage Ukraine has been getting since the Maylasian plane crash. Both are important of course, but all I see is Flight 370.