[DGU] The 'Defensive Gun Use' Thread

[Alamo]

North Carolina

Police: 7-Eleven customer shot 2 suspects during robbery, killing 1 - Story | WJZY


4 am. 7-11 gas station. Robbers rob customer, then point gun in face of clerk. Customer un-conceals “lawfully concealed handgun” and blasts both robbers. One DRT, one wounded, captured later.

Story at the link has been updated with the name of the miscreants, and notes the police have decided the customer's actions were in self-defense. DA to review. Surviving miscreant did not have life-threatening wound and has been take to jail, charged with attempted robbery with a dangerous weapon, conspiracy to commit armed robbery, and armed robbery from person

 

[2A_Tom]

He should be charged with murder.

 

[Alamo]

He should be charged with murder.

[IANAL_Holiday Inn Disclamer]
It may be that under North Carolina's judicial scheme the felony murder rule does not apply here because the death was not caused by one of the robbers/conspirators, but by an independent party who did not have any relationship to the robbers. Looking at a NC Supreme Court decision that references another NCSC decision, it appears NC's doctrine of felony murder uses agency theory rather than proximate cause. Agency theory says felony murder applies only when agents of the underlying felony crime (e.g. robbery) caused the death, not someone who was unrelated to the robbery itself (e.g. innocent armed victim). Proximate cause theory would hold that any death resulting from the robber's actions would be the responsibility of the robbers (with some further caveats).
[/IANAL_Holiday Inn Disclamer]

For example: https://law.justia.com/cases/north-carolina/supreme-court/1992/83a91-0.html

 

[2A_Tom]

I did not say anything about the law, just gave my opinion.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Actually it would have saved a lot of trouble, had the armed citizen had been a better shot.

 

[Alamo]

I did not say anything about the law, just gave my opinion.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Actually it would have saved a lot of trouble, had the armed citizen had been a better shot.

Oh no problem, I don't necessarily disagree, I was just pointing out the technicalities. In Texas I believe he could be charged with murder. I got interested in how the felony murder rule works in NC, so I did a little searching.

 

[Alamo]

Gunman wounds 2, fatally shot by bystander at Walmart store | Fox News

The quoted post is from a little over a year ago - June 2018. The linked story has very little information, and the police at the time were not even sure if the bad guy went into the Walmart or not.

Not only did he enter in the Walmart but he fired a round into the ammunition cabinet, shattering the glass and stole a box of ammo to reload his hand gun.

At least two Walmart customers drew concealed handguns, one, a pastor, went on to kill the miscreant. Unfortunately not before the bad guy just a person in the neck paralyzing him from neck down.

This was a wild one. Worth watching the vid:

[video=youtube_share;itvWocZ-uFo]https://youtu.be/itvWocZ-uFo[/video]

 

[spec4]

What am I missing? The guy was in immediate danger of being murdered, not to mention the clerk.

 

[Alamo]

The pastor made a public video statement regarding his actions:

[video=youtube_share;n8S2OKq8l-s]https://youtu.be/n8S2OKq8l-s[/video]

 

[Alamo]

Illinois:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...0190814-gc4ftbkmsnfijeworh6tyh442u-story.html


https://abc7chicago.com/teen-fatall...-after-chase-from-lake-co-to-chicago/5464141/

Six Chicago teens in a stolen Lexus apparently containing burgled items went into nearby Lake County and stopped at the home of a 75 yo man about 0100. A licensed firearm owner, he heard them outside and went out to investigate, fearing they were trying to steal his car. He told the police that he yelled at them about what are you doing, one of the teens approached him with an object in his hand and the homeowner shot him once in the head. The teens loaded up their wounded buddy and fled. Deputies found a "bowie knife" at this scene.

The teens came upon an accident scene, stopped, and dropped off the wounded/dead teen and another teen. They then fled the scene and were pursued by police until their vehicle ran out of gas. Cops rounded them up and they admitted they had entered Lake County to steal property.

Four of them have been charged with 1st degree felony murder.

 

[2A_Tom]

That is my County.

 

[d.kaufman]

That is my County.

You live in Lake County, Illinois now?

 

[2A_Tom]

Well, usually they run across the state line so I assumed and didn't make an ass of you.

 

[Alamo]

Houston, Texas:

Thursday afternoon, 1:00 pm, young woman walking her dog on the sidewalk is grabbed by some guy. She struggles, he picks her up. Another woman driving by stops, rolls down window, honks and yells. Three other guys, "some with guns," get out of their vehicles and separate the grabber from the young woman. 911 is called, but by time cops get there everyone involved is gone.

Picture of one of the gun-toters in the video at link at the link. White male, slacks, long sleeve dress shirt, tie maybe, Glock maybe.

Be sure to watch the video interview with the witness (the woman who honked and yelled).

https://abc13.com/man-with-gun-scares-off-womans-would-be-kidnapper-witness/5473229/

 

[Yup!]

The pastor made a public video statement regarding his actions:

[video=youtube_share;n8S2OKq8l-s]https://youtu.be/n8S2OKq8l-s[/video]

I dont know if there was anyone better to be there that day. This is what prepared looks like.

 

[Alamo]

https://www.wbir.com/mobile/article...ke-in/85-0df95080-70fc-4c72-812b-6bf3093f0a71


Knoxville TN I believe.


Resident wakes up shortly before 0230 Fri morning to sound of glass breaking. Takes his gun to investigate, encounters intruder, shots, intruder killed. Police investigating.

 

[Alamo]

Bullet shatters CPD station window after concealed carry holder shoots back in West Side dispute

Title makes it seem the like the license holder fired a shot through the police station window, but reading the article shows the source is unknown as of the publishing of the article.

Two males were in custody after their group of four argued with a concealed carry license holder and one of them fired shots, CPD spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said.

The concealed carry holder took out their own gun and returned fire, he said.

The shooting happened about 7:45 p.m. near the Austin 15th District police station in the 5700 block of West Madison Street, police said. A bullet had pierced a window of the station but did not strike anyone.

Also grammar is dead.

 

[Alamo]

Three robbers, three homeowners: One victim, one defender, four arrested

Tulsa, Oklahoma



https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loc...cle_bd7e1a99-98b1-5f0f-a3e1-442188209b12.html

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loc...cle_044d6975-ac86-55c0-a681-30a0453903c6.html

https://kfor.com/2019/07/26/police-...ry-suspect-in-backyard-arrested-for-shooting/

Three males and possibly a female robbed at gunpoint a man mowing his yard of $12 and debit card approximately 8:15pm. Thirty minutes later they tried to rob another man watering his yard. This man was open carrying, (clumsily!) drew his pistol; the robber holding a gun ran away, but the other one simply walked back to his car and was driven away.

Police spotted the car 15 minutes later and a chase ensued. The car crashed into an industrial gate and the three males ran away on foot, trying to jump fences into neighboring backyards. Police caught one; the other two (brothers) jumped into a backyard and were confronted by a third man who was armed and fired twice, striking one of the two in the abdomen (critical condition but expected to survive). The uninjured robber fled, but surrendered to police shortly afterward.

The third homeowner was arrested by police and charged with "shooting with intent to kill" (apparently it's an Oklahoma thing; I have seen that charge in OKlahoma before). Homeowner is in jail on $75K bond while DA reviews case.

John Correia of Active Self Protection reviews the second attempted robbery, which was caught on the homeowner's security video.

[video=youtube;eZIW6wD5vl4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZIW6wD5vl4[/video]
I have seen the paddle holster snafu happened in training sessions. In one instance the defender drew, the holster came out with the gun, the defender "snapped" his arm to try to dislodge the holster but instead lost his grip on the gun and it went sailing away still in the holster.

 

[dudley0]

If this took place in CA the second homeowner would have been arrested for wasting water.

So third homeowner confronts two people, at least one of which is armed, and get put in the pokey because he defended himself? Once again I worry about how the laws protect the miscreants.

 

[Alamo]

Greg Ellefritz, Ohio cop and SD trainer, reports on an incident he investigated involving a larger individual threatening a smaller one with a license to carry and a gun. DGU with no shots fired.

https://www.activeresponsetraining....7a_9b0J5m4AHVNRGY4RAuaMBxasdLbp-UdKGdZx_XFSeU

 

[actaeon277]

Some good points in the article.