Coronavirus II

[KG1]

Quest labs in california is way behind in corona virus testing causing huge problems across the whole country.
They went around generating business at institutions and medical centers across the country, over-promising beyond their capabilities.
But yet they kept accepting samples for tests and the money for doing the tests when they knew they could not keep up.
Other labs could have done the tests faster and returned the important results to the doctors.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/next-covid-19-testing-crisis/609193/

A friend of the family was tested and it took 10 days to get the results back. Thankfully it was negative.

 

[churchmouse]

After you click on it (it's only about 30 seconds) ask yourself, "Could I imagine Mayor Stinky Shoes saying that?" After answering yes, ask yourself, "HOW IN THE A-F DID THIS ASSHAT GET 70% OF THE VOTE??"

Because the electorate has been lulled into a state of mush by the MSM.

WE ***** and moan constantly about the elected officials. What we should be doing is looking at ourselves. There in the problem lay.

 

[smokingman]

What to do since you are stuck at home on April 1?

Stay at home April fools day ideas.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/31/the-b...s-to-play-on-your-family-while-stuck-at-home/

A few are ok. But one I actually like. Go around and replace all family pictures with other pictures of your choice.

At the very least you can spend the day pretending no one in your house is a part of your family(and point to the "proof" on the wall).

I would not take the time to take frames down,but cut pictures to the frame size and use a piece of tape over the glass. Unless you want to go "all in" and spend loads of time.

 

[jamil]

Not verifying what I was told. Hope it was just a rumor.

A lot of people on Twitter whining at Holcomb, not for being too authoritarian, but not enough. Complaining that ice cream shops and coffee shops are still open. That he should have extended the "lockdown" at least until end of April.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

A lot of people on Twitter whining at Holcomb, not for being too authoritarian, but not enough. Complaining that ice cream shops and coffee shops are still open. That he should have extended the "lockdown" at least until end of April.

I’m seeing lots of this. I’ve even seen the “even if it saves just one life, it’s worth it” uttered more than once.

 

[smokingman]

Anyone in the mood for a cdc study,that is on the American Journal of Medicine now?

I am torn on sharing this one. Not because it is unrealistic,but more because it is a documented tragedy.

Fair warning it is the result of a study at the first nursing home in Washington State.

I will do it this way. I am going to post the name of the study. If you want you can google it and it will come up.

Fair warning. It is likely one of the most tragic things I have ever read.

"Epidemiology of Covid-19 in a Long-Term Care Facility in King County, Washington"



Now for a place to find good news about clinical trials when they finish.You will probably read about them here before the press if you check it every few days.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=COVID-19

 

[churchmouse]

I’m seeing lots of this. I’ve even seen the “even if it saves just one life, it’s worth it” uttered more than once.

So we stop driving. Crush all the cars today. If it saves even 1 life then it is worth it.

 

[nra4ever]

Lay it on us smokingman. We are all big boys and girls and possibly something else these days. Most wont click unless there is at least a good summary of what to expert. Appreciate all your work.

 

[ghuns]

So we stop driving. Crush all the cars today. If it saves even 1 life then it is worth it.

Nah. We don't have to do anything that draconian.

Just impose a nationwide 10MPH speed limit.

Crashes at that speed would be essentially 100% survivable, even in the most ragged out 1987 Corolla.

 

[Rookie]

A lot of people on Twitter whining at Holcomb, not for being too authoritarian, but not enough. Complaining that ice cream shops and coffee shops are still open. That he should have extended the "lockdown" at least until end of April.

They could always move to Howard county. We are the most fair county in Indiana.

 

[smokingman]

So we stop driving. Crush all the cars today. If it saves even 1 life then it is worth it.

I did not encourage more measures. What I did ask him to do what better reporting from the Indiana Department of Health.

Not just for the sake of average Indiana citizens,but so those who are clinically dealing with or will deal with cases will have a quick glimpse at what is happening.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So we stop driving. Crush all the cars today. If it saves even 1 life then it is worth it.

Yep... there’s several profound quotes out there about this. This is the guise by which freedom is lost, often to never be regained.

 

[jamil]

I think data, studies and trials are great. I also think indidivuals who gather data and interpret data are remarkable, to say the least. They are able to see things differently, in a very basic way, like an accountant. I further believe that with that amazing ability to see things and interpet things, as much as it is good, it can be very limiting. At times people become obsessed with the numbers and where it is taking them. What does our model say today, what about 6 months from now.....their entire being becomes the data model and they lose focus on the purpose because they are obsessed with the process. We are talking human beings here. They are not numbers, they are people. The data gathering and interpretation should be people driven. If something appears to work, even in a small percentage, grow that area of investigation. Continue the data gathering but not at the expense of a human life; it's not your place to determine that. Many drugs cause severe reactions. Family member recenty had 2 stents pout in and then placed on blood thinners. Had a reaction to the drug and was told the benefits outweigh the side effects! How true is that!

We cannot allow our hands to be tied and wait for the data collectors to fill their model till they feel comfortable before we can do "whatever we can" to save a life. The American way has been one of many reasons we fall behind other countries with the release of newer drugs. Our hands get tied because of data gathering. We need to learn to do both. I need you to relax your data driven drive and you need me to relax my people driven drive. In other words, there is absolutely NO REASON both can exist and supportive of each other. You gather the data and interpret the models while I give drugs, that may have side effects, to a dying person. In time, we can truly compliment each other.

I have to admit that I've had a difficult time understanding where you're coming from. This post kinda informs me more about that than about any other. Most informative is the use of the cold calculations of an accountant to represent the evaluation of data around the corona virus. At least that's what I think you're describing. And I think I understand that perspective better now. So thanks for that. To me it seemed like you were upset by someone using data to say that the thing we'd all like to have hope in, probably isn't going to work. But it's more than that. It's also

So let me try to explain the other side of it. People who study data aren't necessarily separating the data from the people. The drive to gather and try to understand the data isn't just an obsession over data for the sake of it, and it's not with the absence of knowing that all the data points represent people suffering. So there are two things going on: Care about getting us through this with minimum loss of life, and using a data-driven approach to figuring out what is the best way forward. Data-driven doesn't mean it's not people-driven. People are the drive to look at data. The purpose of studying the data is to understand as much about this virus and its spread and its impact as they can, so that they can make intelligent decisions about what can make it better vs what will make it worse.

An example. It's been reported that in Iran they were telling people to take methanol. Think about that. They don't know, but maybe it'll help. Rather than using science and data to determine if it'll be safe and effective, They tried it out of desperate ignorance. But all that did was make people die faster. I'm not saying drugs like hydroxychloroquine are the equivalent of taking methanol. I'm just using that to establish the fact that there is a point where trying something out of desperation will end with a far worse result. The study of the data is for the purpose of establishing if such a point exists with the suggested treatments. I know it seems like cold number-crunching. It's not cold to look into tomorrow, to the extent that is possible, to see if what you wanted to do today will hurt you.

They're not doing it to deprive anyone of treatments that can help people. It's that they don't know if it will, and, it's not a treatment without risk. And I do agree with you, that when it comes to people who are left with desperation, why not try the unknown. In a way I understand why some Iranians took methanol. They felt like they didn't have anything to lose. They wanted to put their last hope into something they heard might work. But, at least we know what the likely harm is from taking hydroxychloroquine, because we have a lot of data on its prior use, because the people who study data understand its side effects. A live dog is better off than a dead lion. I think the risk of having hallucinations seems better to me than suffocating to death from covid-19. I do think that if it comes to the point of desperation, I would want the option to try the drug therapy.

 

[MarkC]

Nah. We don't have to do anything that draconian.

Just impose a nationwide 10MPH speed limit.

Crashes at that speed would be essentially 100% survivable, even in the most ragged out 1987 Corolla.

That's a good start; then mandate public transportation for any trip of over, say, 30 miles? Trains, buses, and airplanes are far safer than cars per passenger mile. Besides, at 10 mph, I really won't feel like driving very far.

Also, mandate a five-point racing harness for each passenger.

Also.... (the list could go on and on).

 

[T.Lex]

Yep... there’s several profound quotes out there about this. This is the guise by which freedom is lost, often to never be regained.

I've been thinking more about this.

Here in the US, the pendulum does sometimes swing back toward freedom.

The AWB was allowed to expire (and had an expiration built into it). There's been de-regulation of everything from airlines to banks (with, let's say, mixed results). The US citizens of Japanese descent were allowed to leave their confinement and as a society, I think we realized that was probably a bad idea. We've even seen more states allow more freedom to carry weapons.

As long as we hold on to the value of freedom, I think we will be able to move back away from the momentary authoritarian steps.

 

[jamil]

I’m seeing lots of this. I’ve even seen the “even if it saves just one life, it’s worth it” uttered more than once.

There is a point where the cure might be worse than the disease. These people seem to be pining for it.

 

[churchmouse]

I did not encourage more measures. What I did ask him to do what better reporting from the Indiana Department of Health.

Not just for the sake of average Indiana citizens,but so those who are clinically dealing with or will deal with cases will have a quick glimpse at what is happening.

No worries as I was responding to the post made by GFGT. Just seemed the thing to do.

The mind numbed idiots are rife in number.

 

[Ziggidy]

Yep... there’s several profound quotes out there about this. This is the guise by which freedom is lost, often to never be regained.

Bingo....

 

[smokingman]

There is a point where the cure might be worse than the disease. These people seem to be pining for it.

I think we should follow another path personally.

Get our testing really up and running. There is no reason for the United States to be number 31 per capa in testing. None. Get it done.
Find cases,and isolate them.
Get everyone else back to work,and wearing a mask.

Not sure if you saw my post the road back home. But it would take much longer than what I would like to see.

 

[drillsgt]

Anyone in the mood for a cdc study,that is on the American Journal of Medicine now?

I am torn on sharing this one. Not because it is unrealistic,but more because it is a documented tragedy.

Fair warning it is the result of a study at the first nursing home in Washington State.

I will do it this way. I am going to post the name of the study. If you want you can google it and it will come up.

Fair warning. It is likely one of the most tragic things I have ever read.

"Epidemiology of Covid-19 in a Long-Term Care Facility in King County, Washington"



Now for a place to find good news about clinical trials when they finish.You will probably read about them here before the press if you check it every few days.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=COVID-19

This was one of the most tragic things you've ever read? I would label this 'click-bait'. Was it a shock that older adults with a median age of 83 years old with a laundry list of comorbidities died (plus one visitor with a mean age of 63)? No younger infected staff members died. I'll agree that the deaths are tragic but not shocking, all this was unfolding when the information on Covid-19 was just ramping up. I review manuscripts for a number of journals and what I find shocking is this largely observational puff piece was reviewed and published in about a week! It can often take me longer than a week just to agree to review a manuscript. When you submit a manuscript it can take a month, two, or longer to hear back and then you might be looking at one or two series of edits, then once accepted it could be over a year before a spot is available for in press publishing. I could see rush publishing for some new novel treatment but saying yeah Covid got into a rest home and wreaked havoc doesn't really add much to our knowledge at this point. It seems NEJM just wanted to have some more Covid work out there. Don't get me started on the fact there were forty authors on this thing.