common sense carry

[stephen87]

Uhh no... I didn't say that. I think that OC'ing ASSHATS (and not all OC'rs are asshats) puts ALL gun owners in harms way. As far as what's ruining the country, thats about #43,023 on the list...

As far as the rest of your diatribe goes, it's far beyond the scope of what I said or meant. Just because I believe it's idiotic to open carry, I've never ONCE said you shouldn't be allowed to do it. I think smoking is ****ing retarded but I will never support the anti-smoking laws. Stop assuming I am against you. You want to talk about our own worse enemy, it's gun owners putting words in others mouths. This isn't a public debate, its a private discussion on a private board. If they want to try and outlaw OC, I'll be right there with you supporting your cause.

We forget the old saying, I may disagree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it...

Gotcha. The way it was written seemed to me that you were 100% against OC, which is why I was asking what you meant. Either way, as long as you JFC, you're good to go in my book

 

[88GT]

Gotcha. The way it was written seemed to me that you were 100% against OC, which is why I was asking what you meant. Either way, as long as you JFC, you're good to go in my book

He is. He said so in his first sentence. (Okay it was the second sentence.)

 

[Bunnykid68]

Everything I am about to say is my PERSONAL belief. I think OC is stupid when concealed carry is available. This concept of the shepard, sheep and wolf has been bandied around on both sides but no one has stated the facts about that relationship. The goal of the shepard is to protect the sheep, not scare them, not to educate them but to simply protect them. The wolf doesn't need to know WHO the shepard is as long as he know the shepard is there. OC scares people (sheep), we are lucky enough to live in a rather conservative area of the country and most are not scared by people OC'ing. That doesn't mean that if they have no police contact that they havent scared anyone, it just means that they didn't have police contact. I am friends with several local police officers and I hear about the calls they get about "people with guns" and the contacts they make with those people. 95% are simply people OC'ing, legally. So whether or not a criminal is deterred by your OC'ing, the public doesn't feel the same way that you do. You give gun owners a bad rap by exercising your right. By OC'ing, you are falling into the exact stereotype that CNN, HuffPost and all the rest of the idiotic libtarded media says about gun owners. THAT harms ALL gun owners.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Again, I recommend that ATM's "Open Carry Argument" thread be required reading before anyone posts their anti-OC/OC'ers are idiots/OC'ers will be shot first, bullstanky.

Exercising a right in secret isn't exercising a right, IMO. I don't advocate everyone must OC. I choose to do so for many reasons. I'm sure that makes me an asshat but I really don't' care. How you choose to carry is your business, not mine. A concept lost on many in this thread.

We can stop asking for threads or even a post where the OC'er bashes the CC'er. They don't exist. It's just a smokescreen to say both sides do it to justify one side doing it. The liberals use that argument all the time to varying degrees of success.

 

[churchmouse]

People OC because,
(1)...they want to.
(2)...they need to.
(3)...they can
(4)...any combo of the above.

Apply this to CC.

There it is.

There is no real reason to OC as it does not educate only infuriate. Too many negatives.

There are more good things in CC than OC.

This is of course just my personal opinion and will have no real effect on what others do. And it shouldn't.

 

[88GT]

But OC is just stupid.

 

[Rhoadmar]

But OC is just stupid.

and ocers wear gluteal headgear.

 

[churchmouse]

But OC is just stupid.

No...maybe not the best choice but not stupid.

I have been going that route a bit lately depending on where we are and what is going on.

Choices. At least we still have them.

 

[danielson]

Again, I recommend that ATM's "Open Carry Argument" thread be required reading before anyone posts their anti-OC/OC'ers are idiots/OC'ers will be shot first, bullstanky.

Exercising a right in secret isn't exercising a right, IMO. I don't advocate everyone must OC. I choose to do so for many reasons. I'm sure that makes me an asshat but I really don't' care. How you choose to carry is your business, not mine. A concept lost on many in this thread.

We can stop asking for threads or even a post where the OC'er bashes the CC'er. They don't exist. It's just a smokescreen to say both sides do it to justify one side doing it. The liberals use that argument all the time to varying degrees of success.

DUDE, you just did...

 

[danielson]

There is nothing that makes you a superior patriot, when you carry your firearm where its visible.

 

[88GT]

People OC because,
(1)...they want to.
(2)...they need to.
(3)...they can
(4)...any combo of the above.

Apply this to CC.

There it is.

There is no real reason to OC as it does not educate only infuriate. Too many negatives.

There are more good things in CC than OC.

This is of course just my personal opinion and will have no real effect on what others do. And it shouldn't.

Problem with this is that it's very rarely stated as an opinion. And let's face it, adding "It's just my opinion" at the end doesn't really lessen the implication that the author is operating on the assumption that those statements ARE facts.


"No real reason to OC" cannot be supported with evidence because it's not a fact.
"It doesn't not educate, only infuriates" cannot be supported with evidence because it's not a fact.
"Too many negatives" cannot be supported with evidence because it's not a fact.
"More good things in CC than OC" cannot be supported with evidence because it's not a fact.

"I have not found a compelling reason to OC when I carry. I find that the potential risks outweigh the potential benefits based on my priorities, and overall, I feel more comfortable CCing than OCing." No opinions stated as fact. Yet it provides exactly the same reasons for the choice to CC as your statements.


The only FACTS involved in the OC/CC debate are this:
1. Both are legal with an LTCH
2. There are pros and cons to both, the weight of which is determined by each person individually based on his needs and priorities.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Talking to yourself about religion in your bathroom isn't really practicing the 1st Amendment either because no one can hear you.

 

[88GT]

There is nothing that makes you a superior patriot, when you carry your firearm where its visible.

Why would you even feel the need to type this?

 

[churchmouse]

Problem with this is that it's very rarely stated as an opinion. And let's face it, adding "It's just my opinion" at the end doesn't really lessen the implication that the author is operating on the assumption that those statements ARE facts.


"No real reason to OC" cannot be supported with evidence because it's not a fact.
"It doesn't not educate, only infuriates" cannot be supported with evidence because it's not a fact.
"Too many negatives" cannot be supported with evidence because it's not a fact.
"More good things in CC than OC" cannot be supported with evidence because it's not a fact.

"I have not found a compelling reason to OC when I carry. I find that the potential risks outweigh the potential benefits based on my priorities, and overall, I feel more comfortable CCing than OCing." No opinions stated as fact. Yet it provides exactly the same reasons for the choice to CC as your statements.


The only FACTS involved in the OC/CC debate are this:
1. Both are legal with an LTCH
2. There are pros and cons to both, the weight of which is determined by each person individually based on his needs and priorities.

Not really pushing my post as fact more just personal experience from what I see and hear.

For something to be fact it does have to be registered/written down or presented as such.

I agree with your #'s 1 and 2 but in the end they are similar to my list. I was just to general in the writing of it.

My statement about no real reason to OC was more from personal experiences of my own and related to 2nd hand info from others. I think it could be rated as an opinion as it was not fact based.

CC is my normal carry decision. I have had reason to OC or switch on the roll depending on situations. Since retiring and staying out of certain areas the OC option has been greatly reduced.

 

[GunsNstuff]

How would you know that?
Because no one has said anything does not prove that no one has noticed.
I have seen quite a few CCers.
I rarely said anything to them. If they are CCing, then I figure they don't want it mentioned.
But that does not mean that it was not noticed.

I know because someone would have said something about it if they noticed and I took great care to ensure that no one would ever notice.

 

[BlackDog714]

He is. He said so in his first sentence. (Okay it was the second sentence.)

No, I am not. I definitely think there is a time and place for OC. I think that the way some people express their right to do it is going about it all wrong. To me a lot of the militant OC'rs remind me of the of the militant gay community that demands to be "loved" simply because they are gay. It don't work that way.

Some of you seem to be getting really butthurt over the fact that I personally think it's stupid to OC in a mall or at a restaurant. Why do you care? I'm not sorry for my opinion, it is what it is. Getting your panties in a bunch just makes you look like a crybaby... Thinking I'm "belittling" someone for stating my opinions is ridiculous. Put your big boy pants on and get over it.

However, if you think that you OC'ing does something to IMPROVE the views of the general public about gun owners, than you are deluding yourself. As it's been said before most CC'rs think it's not wise, how do you think the general public feels about your brashness? If you somehow think that some anti-soccermom is going to suddenly say "oh my, look at that handsome fellow carrying his gun... All of my political and personal beliefs are changed because I saw one non-crazy guy carrying a gun", you've got bigger problems that can't be solved on this forum.

 

[rjklein4470]

This is tuff for me, I was married ten years before my wife knew I never left the house without a gun. So I like concealed, however that is me, if I see sombody open carry it does not bother me. I had to open carry one time and it felt really akward. I felt like everybody was looking at me, and most like I had ten heads.

 

[Bunnykid68]

No, I am not. I definitely think there is a time and place for OC. I think that the way some people express their right to do it is going about it all wrong. To me a lot of the militant OC'rs remind me of the of the militant gay community that demands to be "loved" simply because they are gay. It don't work that way.

Some of you seem to be getting really butthurt over the fact that I personally think it's stupid to OC in a mall or at a restaurant. Why do you care? I'm not sorry for my opinion, it is what it is. Getting your panties in a bunch just makes you look like a crybaby... Thinking I'm "belittling" someone for stating my opinions is ridiculous. Put your big boy pants on and get over it.

However, if you think that you OC'ing does something to IMPROVE the views of the general public about gun owners, than you are deluding yourself. As it's been said before most CC'rs think it's not wise, how do you think the general public feels about your brashness? If you somehow think that some anti-soccermom is going to suddenly say "oh my, look at that handsome fellow carrying his gun... All of my political and personal beliefs are changed because I saw one non-crazy guy carrying a gun", you've got bigger problems that can't be solved on this forum.

Then tell us when and where it is appropriate to OC, locked in our bathrooms while we practice our 1st Amendment right to preach religion that way no one can see or hear us?

 

[BlackDog714]

Then tell us when and where it is appropriate to OC, locked in our bathrooms while we practice our 1st Amendment right to preach religion that way no one can see or hear us?

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what it means to exercise your rights... I mean you might, but your posts certainly don't convey your knowledge if you do.

Why do you care about my opinion? Is anything I say going to change your mind? Are you looking for validation from your e-buddies. Every argument posted about this, it seems you've nothing to offer but a willful ignorance of public opinion or a disingenuous attempt to obfuscate the real issues.

 

[Rhoadmar]

No, I am not. I definitely think there is a time and place for OC. I think that the way some people express their right to do it is going about it all wrong. To me a lot of the militant OC'rs remind me of the of the militant gay community that demands to be "loved" simply because they are gay. It don't work that way.
What is your definition of militant?
Some of you seem to be getting really butthurt over the fact that I personally think it's stupid to OC in a mall or at a restaurant. Why do you care? I'm not sorry for my opinion, it is what it is. Getting your panties in a bunch just makes you look like a crybaby... Thinking I'm "belittling" someone for stating my opinions is ridiculous. Put your big boy pants on and get over it.

However, if you think that you OC'ing does something to IMPROVE the views of the general public about gun owners, than you are deluding yourself. As it's been said before most CC'rs think it's not wise, how do you think the general public feels about your brashness? If you somehow think that some anti-soccermom is going to suddenly say "oh my, look at that handsome fellow carrying his gun... All of my political and personal beliefs are changed because I saw one non-crazy guy carrying a gun", you've got bigger problems that can't be solved on this forum.

The general public I've come in contact with leave with questions answered and generally feeling pretty good.