Colt Teetering On The Brink Of Bankrupcy

[87iroc]

I like Colt...if only for the history. I couldn't afford one of their guns today.

Love the union chest thumping. Glad to say I have been union-free for 9 yrs now...and haven't looked back....or crawled back to them asking for their 'help'.

 

[danielson]

I have so much to say, but I dont want to thread jack... This is not a union thread, people. Start one and lets talk shop.

 

[jdmack79]

I have so much to say, but I dont want to thread jack... This is not a union thread, people. Start one and lets talk shop.

Unions are a crucial component of Colt's financial issues, so it's pretty relevant. There have been numerous union threads started here on INGO, they usually end with the union guys angrily defending their dues going to support anti-gun politicians.

 

[smokingman]

When Colt Defense went back into private ownership and rejoined Colt it was almost guaranteed this would happen.

As a public company they had to disclose expenses and dividends(Colt Defense was very profitable as a public company with a decent dividend),as a private non publicly traded company they do not have to disclose much of anything.So what happened?

The company was bleed dry behind closed doors,loaded up with debt,and most likely will end up the next American Hostess(sold to another hedge fund after filing bankruptcy to start the process all over again).

It is the new American business model.Take a profitable company and load it up with debt while paying ridiculous dividends and executive/board salaries until the company is bleed dry,then file bankruptcy and sell it cheap to the next hedge fund who begins the process again.Other examples of this would be Sears,American Airlines,Hostess,CIT,Sem Group...on and on.The new American dream.Bleed em dry.

Primer for those who have no clue what I am talking about.http://www.examiner.com/article/how-private-equity-firms-can-bleed-the-private-sector-dry

 

[Tynimiller]

When Colt Defense went back into private ownership and rejoined Colt it was almost guaranteed this would happen.

As a public company they had to disclose expenses and dividends(Colt Defense was very profitable as a public company with a decent dividend),as a private non publicly traded company they do not have to disclose much of anything.So what happened?

The company was bleed dry behind closed doors,loaded up with debt,and most likely will end up the next American Hostess(sold to another hedge fund after filing bankruptcy to start the process all over again).

It is the new American business model.Take a profitable company and load it up with debt while paying ridiculous dividends and executive/board salaries until the company is bleed dry,then file bankruptcy and sell it cheap to the next hedge fund who begins the process again.Other examples of this would be Sears,American Airlines,Hostess,CIT,Sem Group...on and on.The new American dream.Bleed em dry.

Primer for those who have no clue what I am talking about.How private equity firms can bleed the private sector dry - National populist | Examiner.com

Sadly I fear this is a very accurate post....sad but true.

 

[88E30M50]

I would do this, although I'm not 100% sure what you mean by German style labor management but I am assuming it means efficiently managed and fair labor devoid of a union. Then I would build a smallish factory in a freedom loving state, like IN, and go the Wilson Combat route, building semi to full custom 1911s and AR-15s in small batches, with the absolute strictest standards of QC. And as you suggested begin R&D into and new most likely poly framed striker fired pistol for mass production to compete with the Glock/M&P market while still maintaining strict QC standards to meet a desired priced point. I think it could be done and if it was a superior design and had good ergos and was proven reliable with no or minimal MIM parts (I'm thinking like the CZ P-07) made in the USA could be offered for sub $1k and still sell like hot cakes.

By German style labor management, I mean that they would hire the best available people initially, then create an apprentice program to train new machinists. Down the road, as machinists retire, their ranks are filled with the best performing apprentice available. By the time an apprentice would be eligible for stepping up into a machinists slot, they would have at least 5 years experience in different aspects of the production work, having trained and then shadowed the journeyman machinists on the job. It works well for them over there, and it would be interesting to see it tried here. Companies there that work in that manner experience near zero turn over and enjoy very highly skilled output. The key is that the company invests in the people and the people are loyal to the company. Both win in the end.

 

[gundoc111]

Its funny how many say that....but when their job is in jeopardy and they have a chance to turn to the union, they break their arm while reaching out to the UNION to save their butt. I call people like that....Two-faced, coward little *****es, deserving of losing everything they worked hard for because they were too cheap to pay union dues for the very union that did all the hard work to achieve such benefits packages, working conditions, etc. There are alot of people walking around "blindly" spouting negative about unions, maybe that is because they havent been in a job where their very lives were put in jeopardy daily because of working conditions or they werent given unfair wages or they werent treated illegally (In violation of federal laws) and on and on.
Dont knock it until you try it. Would you rather make 40k a year or 65k a year doing the same job? Making 40k a year, the other 25k goes in to the companys' pocket (Typically stockholders or ceo) or would you prefer the 25K extra go in to your pocket...hence making 65K/yr. Anyone that states they would prefer the 40k/yr either truly sucks at math or is a liar.

Look what unions did TO, not FOR, the auto industry. It takes TAXPAYER DOLLARS to support them building sub par cars. People are not stupid. IF G.M. of Chrysler could build a car that didn't burn people up like the G.M. ignition switch recall did, or last longer than 2-3 years they would buy them. But they can't. How old are you? Remember the paint coming off in SHEETS on G.M. cars of the 1970-1980's. The buying public remembers that is why they started looking at Jap cars. Found out they were more reliable and stayed with them.

I'll admit I ain't a genius but I can read and when you look at the list ANY LIST of the most trouble free cars you have the Crown Vic in the top 15-20 but for American brands THAT'S IT. I am sorry as hell to see it. I try to buy American but I am NOT going to overpay for a substandard car just to support some union fat cat. I own my first ever 'foreign' car. It is a BMW made in Alabama. In 75,000+ miles I have replaced one blower motor THAT'S IT.

G.M. had the WORLD by the shorts in the 1950's and 1960's when they controlled the auto market the world over. Now they survive by rental car sales and fleet sales, 2-3 year and flip them.

Look at what you see on the news. Jeep employes, on their lunch hour, smoking pot and drinking. I grew up in a G.M. town, Dayton. The guys I went to school with told me stories of sleeping on the job, working 3-4 hours and drinking the rest of the day. If you come in drunk or drink on the job you don't loose your job. You go on FULL TIME DISABILITY. They told me the only thing you could get fired for is fighting. ANYTHING ELSE you got a job for life.

Look at the G.M. metal stamping plant on the west side. It ran for close to 100 years till it was no longer able to keep up with the competition. Rather than a pay cut the union voted to CLOSE THE PLANT AND 700-800 GUYS voted them selves OUT of jobs. i still can't figure the thought process there.

Spend your money as you see fit. If it is close I will buy American but I am not going to overpay for junk cars.

 

[kawtech87]

By German style labor management, I mean that they would hire the best available people initially, then create an apprentice program to train new machinists. Down the road, as machinists retire, their ranks are filled with the best performing apprentice available. By the time an apprentice would be eligible for stepping up into a machinists slot, they would have at least 5 years experience in different aspects of the production work, having trained and then shadowed the journeyman machinists on the job. It works well for them over there, and it would be interesting to see it tried here. Companies there that work in that manner experience near zero turn over and enjoy very highly skilled output. The key is that the company invests in the people and the people are loyal to the company. Both win in the end.

That actually sounds like a very smart business plan.

 

[kawtech87]

begin R&D into and new most likely poly framed striker fired pistol for mass production to compete with the Glock/M&P market while still maintaining strict QC standards to meet a desired priced point. I think it could be done and if it was a superior design and had good ergos and was proven reliable with no or minimal MIM parts (I'm thinking like the CZ P-07) made in the USA could be offered for sub $1k and still sell like hot cakes.

Hmm I have been thinking about this since I posted it and I would bet a striker fired CZ P-07 clone that was made in the USA really would be a winner... Now all I need to do is apply for patent and wait patiently for Colt to go under... Also I need engineers... and money.... CRAP!

 

[Dr.Midnight]

Hmm I have been thinking about this since I posted it and I would bet a striker fired CZ P-07 clone that was made in the USA really would be a winner... Now all I need to do is apply for patent and wait patiently for Colt to go under... Also I need engineers... and money.... CRAP!

Colt has already dabbled in the Polymer market with the Colt 2000. They need to take their game to the next level if they want to splash around in that market. That Colt All American was a turd on wheels, and this is from a Colt fanboy.

 

[kawtech87]

Colt has already dabbled in the Polymer market with the Colt 2000. They need to take their game to the next level if they want to splash around in that market. That Colt All American was a turd on wheels, and this is from a Colt fanboy.

Ah, but that is not a CZ P07 clone. That is some godawful things there. It looks like a high power got drunk and banged a hipoint in the Glock factory.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Look what unions did TO, not FOR, the auto industry. It takes TAXPAYER DOLLARS to support them building sub par cars. People are not stupid. IF G.M. of Chrysler could build a car that didn't burn people up like the G.M. ignition switch recall did, or last longer than 2-3 years they would buy them. But they can't. How old are you? Remember the paint coming off in SHEETS on G.M. cars of the 1970-1980's. The buying public remembers that is why they started looking at Jap cars. Found out they were more reliable and stayed with them.

So you think the union designed the ignition switch? They aren't failing because they were installed improperly. You think the union was to blame for paint peeling? So they decided on the specs for the steel and sourced it, the union designed the assembly line that treated it, and the union chose the primer and paints used? I'm no body shop guy, but a bad paint job has runs and swirls but it doesn't come off. That's bad prep, and the best worker in the world can't do good work with poor resources. Good ol' Edward Deming took that point to the Japanese, and is widely credited with making them the manufacturing powerhouse they were.

Do you really think the problem with GM cars was labor? Not the fact the company missed the turn to fuel efficiency being important to people, the design of the cars, etc. If so, why do modern American cars fare so well? Same union labor. Just doing it with better tools and processes, and building things people want to buy.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Look what unions did TO, not FOR, the auto industry. It takes TAXPAYER DOLLARS to support them building sub par cars. People are not stupid. IF G.M. of Chrysler could build a car that didn't burn people up like the G.M. ignition switch recall did, or last longer than 2-3 years they would buy them. But they can't. How old are you? Remember the paint coming off in SHEETS on G.M. cars of the 1970-1980's. The buying public remembers that is why they started looking at Jap cars. Found out they were more reliable and stayed with them.

I'll admit I ain't a genius but I can read and when you look at the list ANY LIST of the most trouble free cars you have the Crown Vic in the top 15-20 but for American brands THAT'S IT. I am sorry as hell to see it. I try to buy American but I am NOT going to overpay for a substandard car just to support some union fat cat. I own my first ever 'foreign' car. It is a BMW made in Alabama. In 75,000+ miles I have replaced one blower motor THAT'S IT.

G.M. had the WORLD by the shorts in the 1950's and 1960's when they controlled the auto market the world over. Now they survive by rental car sales and fleet sales, 2-3 year and flip them.

Look at what you see on the news. Jeep employes, on their lunch hour, smoking pot and drinking. I grew up in a G.M. town, Dayton. The guys I went to school with told me stories of sleeping on the job, working 3-4 hours and drinking the rest of the day. If you come in drunk or drink on the job you don't loose your job. You go on FULL TIME DISABILITY. They told me the only thing you could get fired for is fighting. ANYTHING ELSE you got a job for life.

Look at the G.M. metal stamping plant on the west side. It ran for close to 100 years till it was no longer able to keep up with the competition. Rather than a pay cut the union voted to CLOSE THE PLANT AND 700-800 GUYS voted them selves OUT of jobs. i still can't figure the thought process there.

Spend your money as you see fit. If it is close I will buy American but I am not going to overpay for junk cars.

At which point have the unions designed, engineered, and sourced the parts and materials for the cars?

 

[gundoc111]

At which point have the unions designed, engineered, and sourced the parts and materials for the cars?

At what point does a union auto worker work BETTER after drinking bear and smoking pot?

 

[gundoc111]

So you think the union designed the ignition switch? They aren't failing because they were installed improperly. You think the union was to blame for paint peeling? So they decided on the specs for the steel and sourced it, the union designed the assembly line that treated it, and the union chose the primer and paints used? I'm no body shop guy, but a bad paint job has runs and swirls but it doesn't come off. That's bad prep, and the best worker in the world can't do good work with poor resources. Good ol' Edward Deming took that point to the Japanese, and is widely credited with making them the manufacturing powerhouse they were.

Do you really think the problem with GM cars was labor? Not the fact the company missed the turn to fuel efficiency being important to people, the design of the cars, etc. If so, why do modern American cars fare so well? Same union labor. Just doing it with better tools and processes, and building things people want to buy.

Yell LOUDER. People still are not buying Obama Motors cars.

 

[fastwally]

What a Troll.

 

[actaeon277]

Yell LOUDER. People still are not buying Obama Motors cars.

They're buying Fords.

 

[Hookeye]

Wasn't the paint peeling due to EPA regulations that changed the paint/primers allowed?

Wonder if Gundoc111 shoots a Taurus.................

 

[Hookeye]

Chrysler manufacturing engineering is union. Dunno about their design group engineers.

 

[Hookeye]

There are some very conscientious and hard working union members in the automotive industry.
There are also a lot of lazy slobs/idiots.

IMHO all professions suffer from such polarization.

Kills me, how people b*tch about lead fumes from a gun range, or artificial sweeteners in their pop, or GMO foods.................they'd lose their friggin' minds if they had to work in manufacturing. Sure some UAW jobs are cush, but a lot aren't..............and I know a ton of people who are dead and or dying from working UAW and salaried.

The poisons they knew of, what OSHA said was OK...............and what they didn't know or hid.............nasty end for many.

Rare cancers...........one type affects 1 in a million. 4 of 8 techs got it where I used to work (none lived through it). Immune disorders, other cancers............not to mention the wear and tear on the bodies (esp assembly line work).

Yeah.............it's good pay, worth dying for.