I own 2 Colt's, and I'm not ashamed, or feel I wasted my money either. Then again, I can say that about every AR-15 I own.
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Colt LE6920 for $999.99
- Thread starter snorko
- Start date
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I own 2 Colt's, and I'm not ashamed, or feel I wasted my money either. Then again, I can say that about every AR-15 I own.
The more I see this whole "TDP / Top Tier" myth discussed, the more nonsense it becomes. Their entire argument revolves around these "trainers", along with regurgitating everything they say. This in spite of the fact many of them are paid to say it.
Let's examine it. The first thing they like to do like clockwork, is try to separate the "recreational" shooters, as they like to call them, from these guys who, "stake their lives on their rifles". This is an attempt to put the non combat target shooter into some type of discredited environment or position where he is not worthy, or qualified enough to make such a decision. They on the other hand, are under the extreme duress of rigorous "training". (i.e. shooting a bunch of rapid fire at targets 7 yards away). This they somehow equate to being much better experienced in making these determinations. How, I have no idea.
BCM has showcased this with their latest ads you are now seeing in magazines, and various gun publications. It reads...."BCM Builds Professional Grade Weaponry...Safe Queen Curators Need Not Apply".... What exactly is a, "Safe Queen Curator"? Is this someone who takes very good care of their rifles, and stores them in a safe? So I guess if you fall into that category, (which includes around 90+% of gun owners who have any type of collection), you don't "need" a BCM rifle. Only if you're a certifiable bad a$$ who wears a sleeveless Molle vest, and smokes a short Panatela cigar, sweats a lot, and hangs out in various jungle locations, and beats the crap out of your gun, do you "need" one. It all comes down to establishing a superior mindset in your customer.
Can anyone tell me how an AR-15 rifle knows if it’s being fired on a range for, “recreation“, or at a bad guys chest? It obviously doesn't. But this “fighting” perception and mentality helps to permeate the myth with non existent reality. The trainers and gurus help to support this mind set, simply because their livelihood depends on it, along with this concept of, “superior equipment for a superiorly trained individual“. Once again, establish a superior mindset. This helps sell both guns, and the training that goes along with them. The concept here is very simple. To sell both, incorporate both.
Again, there is nothing wrong with any of this. It breaks down to nothing more than American capitalism in it's purest form. Just don't try to use it as some sort of a selling tool as to the longevity of an AR-15 rifle. A rifle either works or it doesn't. It really is just that simple. We've established the fact the gun itself doesn't know who's firing it, or what target it is being shot at when it discharges. So everything up to that point is nonsensical. In short, it doesn't matter.
If we advance this discussion from here, it comes down to what it most always does to determine a machines longevity.... maintenance. How a weapon is cared for, cleaned, maintained, and lubricated, will ultimately determine how long it lasts. Not the guy pulling the trigger, how "experienced" he is, what brand of weapon he has, or at what and where he is shooting. In all of these high round count tests, I have yet to see it done along side a so called "Middle Tier" weapon in an attempt to see which breaks first. It's never done.
How can you establish respectable data when you have no baseline to work from that gives you any comparative results? You can't, period. This reminds me of these Saturday morning Infomercials for oil additives. Where they drain the additive based oil out of the engine, then run it for 30 minutes, or some such, with no oil in the crankcase to "prove" how well their product works. Why don't they have an identical car right along side it that didn't have the additive installed? The answer is simple. It would have ran just as well, just as long. If it didn't, they would have been among the first to have done it in order to advance their product. All they have done is create a perception of longevity if you use their product. They have provided no comparative data that proves it's "better" either way.
It is the exact same thing with these AR-15 rifles. Until you have side by side tests done under the same exact controlled conditions....Lubrication, round count, rate of fire over time, cleaning, etc., All you have is a bunch of opinions that cannot be proven one way or another. I just find all of this salesmanship highly amusing based on how many people buy into it.
Let's examine it. The first thing they like to do like clockwork, is try to separate the "recreational" shooters, as they like to call them, from these guys who, "stake their lives on their rifles". This is an attempt to put the non combat target shooter into some type of discredited environment or position where he is not worthy, or qualified enough to make such a decision. They on the other hand, are under the extreme duress of rigorous "training". (i.e. shooting a bunch of rapid fire at targets 7 yards away). This they somehow equate to being much better experienced in making these determinations. How, I have no idea.
BCM has showcased this with their latest ads you are now seeing in magazines, and various gun publications. It reads...."BCM Builds Professional Grade Weaponry...Safe Queen Curators Need Not Apply".... What exactly is a, "Safe Queen Curator"? Is this someone who takes very good care of their rifles, and stores them in a safe? So I guess if you fall into that category, (which includes around 90+% of gun owners who have any type of collection), you don't "need" a BCM rifle. Only if you're a certifiable bad a$$ who wears a sleeveless Molle vest, and smokes a short Panatela cigar, sweats a lot, and hangs out in various jungle locations, and beats the crap out of your gun, do you "need" one. It all comes down to establishing a superior mindset in your customer.
Can anyone tell me how an AR-15 rifle knows if it’s being fired on a range for, “recreation“, or at a bad guys chest? It obviously doesn't. But this “fighting” perception and mentality helps to permeate the myth with non existent reality. The trainers and gurus help to support this mind set, simply because their livelihood depends on it, along with this concept of, “superior equipment for a superiorly trained individual“. Once again, establish a superior mindset. This helps sell both guns, and the training that goes along with them. The concept here is very simple. To sell both, incorporate both.
Again, there is nothing wrong with any of this. It breaks down to nothing more than American capitalism in it's purest form. Just don't try to use it as some sort of a selling tool as to the longevity of an AR-15 rifle. A rifle either works or it doesn't. It really is just that simple. We've established the fact the gun itself doesn't know who's firing it, or what target it is being shot at when it discharges. So everything up to that point is nonsensical. In short, it doesn't matter.
If we advance this discussion from here, it comes down to what it most always does to determine a machines longevity.... maintenance. How a weapon is cared for, cleaned, maintained, and lubricated, will ultimately determine how long it lasts. Not the guy pulling the trigger, how "experienced" he is, what brand of weapon he has, or at what and where he is shooting. In all of these high round count tests, I have yet to see it done along side a so called "Middle Tier" weapon in an attempt to see which breaks first. It's never done.
How can you establish respectable data when you have no baseline to work from that gives you any comparative results? You can't, period. This reminds me of these Saturday morning Infomercials for oil additives. Where they drain the additive based oil out of the engine, then run it for 30 minutes, or some such, with no oil in the crankcase to "prove" how well their product works. Why don't they have an identical car right along side it that didn't have the additive installed? The answer is simple. It would have ran just as well, just as long. If it didn't, they would have been among the first to have done it in order to advance their product. All they have done is create a perception of longevity if you use their product. They have provided no comparative data that proves it's "better" either way.
It is the exact same thing with these AR-15 rifles. Until you have side by side tests done under the same exact controlled conditions....Lubrication, round count, rate of fire over time, cleaning, etc., All you have is a bunch of opinions that cannot be proven one way or another. I just find all of this salesmanship highly amusing based on how many people buy into it.
I posted this to make folks aware of what I thought was a good price. That is an objective judgment, less than I've seen them at walmart, etc. I was in no way implying any superiority of the 6920 or making any qualitative judgment. Some folks are just dang anxious to express their opinions that have nothing to do with the intent of the thread. Hope some folks found it a good deal. Hope it is locked as it is way off the rails.
Naw, everyone knows Glocks suck...
aay off track. Bill is the OTK(Original Thread Killa).
Take a high count carbine class, like Pat Rogers, or something comparable, where 1500-2000 rounds are fired in just under 3 days. You will see that some carbines will perform and some will not. In one of the classes I attended with Pat Rogers in Boone Co. One Dept. sent their officers with several brand new DPMS carbines. They all failed before the first day was over, due to a variety of problems. Before any shooting, their carriers were staked and when the firing began it was discovered that they all had tight chambers that had to be reamed. All the other guns were Colts. I know this is a small sample, but I think it is an indicator as to why the Colt is the standard, along with Daniel Defense, LMT and BCM.
When the term recreational shooter is used, it is not meant to be demeaning. I would guess most shooters are recreational. It is to distinguish those that fire a few hundred rounds in the course of a year from those that attend training or competition and fire over a thousand rounds in a couple of weeks or a month.
If people are happy with Bushmasters, DPMS or whatever, good for them. At least they are in the game and exercising their rights. But those brands are not close to the others mentioned above, when it comes to hard use. But each will do the same when a couple of magazines are fired on a Sat. afternoon.
When the term recreational shooter is used, it is not meant to be demeaning. I would guess most shooters are recreational. It is to distinguish those that fire a few hundred rounds in the course of a year from those that attend training or competition and fire over a thousand rounds in a couple of weeks or a month.
If people are happy with Bushmasters, DPMS or whatever, good for them. At least they are in the game and exercising their rights. But those brands are not close to the others mentioned above, when it comes to hard use. But each will do the same when a couple of magazines are fired on a Sat. afternoon.
$1K is a good price for a Colt 6920.
500 to 600 rounds a day for three days is not a terrific feat for any AR-15 rifle, regardless of brand. If the weapon was properly cleaned and lubricated, any make of AR-15 could and should be able to accomplish that without incident. If a rifles chamber is improperly reamed, you will discover problems from that immediately. It won't take 600 rounds to show up.
And so it goes.
[video=youtube;bHNvUPjIOzY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHNvUPjIOzY[/video]
SpaldingPM
Expert
- Mar 22, 2013
- 1,367
- 48
Hey... I HATE glocks, and I own 3 of them. They're damn good guns lol
SpaldingPM
Expert
- Mar 22, 2013
- 1,367
- 48
The video quality is about as crappy as that dpms itself. HAHA! I'm sorry, I had to!
I agree. 144p just doesn't cut it!
SpaldingPM
Expert
- Mar 22, 2013
- 1,367
- 48
Must have been recorded on a flip phone from 2001. Motorola Razr possibly?
Now you've lost me. All I know is HD looks better. You know....Like a Colt that meets the TDP!
SpaldingPM
Expert
- Mar 22, 2013
- 1,367
- 48
As painful as it was to strain my eyes to focus on 144p on 16:9 on a 23" computer screen, it still doesn't compare to the emotional pain I felt as 10k RDS were disrespecrfully shot out of a DPMS MK12.
There is a difference between a functional weapon and a high quality weapon. Considering fit, finish, trigger feel/weight, barrel etc there is a huge discrepancy. Some of that is just preference but I think some of it crosses into "quality." I would certainly expect to pay less for a rifle that I have to replace the trigger in, just as an example.
Understood. But in all honesty today, I consider triggers to be a total crapshoot on any weapon. I have $220.00 Marlin .22's that have excellent triggers. I also have 2, $1,000.00+ Browning Hi-Power's that have horrible triggers. Hard pull, coupled with a lot of gritty creep. That is not something a shooter should have to tolerate on a 4 digit weapon that otherwise oozes beauty, quality, and craftsmanship. But unfortunately it seems to be the norm. In AR-15 rifles my Bushmasters have the best triggers, and my one Colt, (6940), has about the worst. Considering cost, that should not be the case, but it in fact is. Triggers in today's mass produced firearms are like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get.
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