Colt LE6920 for $999.99

[Txlur]

And even less of it is done by most AR-15 manufacturers. AR-15 rifles are made from vendor built components. The companies who build most of them are assemblers. You as the buyer have no idea who made what where, let alone who tested what. You put your faith in the finished product that comes out of the box. Why would a company invest in the tooling and machinery to produce components they can readily purchase on the open market from companies who are set up to make such parts? They don't.

Certs and testing. High pressure rounds, magnetic particle inspection, positive materials testing. Documentation is part of testing.

https://danieldefense.com/about-daniel-defense

So, uppers, lowers, barrel machine, testing.. All made right there to TDP specs (only Colt has the actual TDP, right?). They import some parts, but hey, look - it's not how you say it is. Great. The companies that do import parts inspect them for quality.

Hey everyone, even if you don't believe what I am saying, don't listen to this guy, because you do NOT have to have "no idea". Do the opposite.

 

[sig1473]

Do you want your EDC handgun(i.e. Sig, HK, Glock, S&W, etc.) to be tested and be able to go through a handgun class? I know I do, so why not have a rifle that your life may depend on? I have a Stag and in no way shape or form is it the "same" as a Colt. Oh, and btw Stag is the civilain side of CMT. I'm not saying Stags are junk but they are not put together as well as a Colt(which I own also).
Example of a Stag BCG stake job:

 

[Miles42]

This is my choice only need to buy local with out having to ship

 

[billt]

Do you want your EDC handgun(i.e. Sig, HK, Glock, S&W, etc.) to be tested and be able to go through a handgun class? I know I do, so why not have a rifle that your life may depend on? I have a Stag and in no way shape or form is it the "same" as a Colt. Oh, and btw Stag is the civilain side of CMT. I'm not saying Stags are junk but they are not put together as well as a Colt(which I own also).

I am going to once again beat this to death, since its still a common Internet myth we all need to fight against.

There is nothing "mid tier " about Stag.
1) The price is the same as most other AR15 manufactures.
2) The quality is the same as other AR15 manufactures.
3) The warranty is ABOVE what is offered by other AR15 manufactures.
4) Some AR15 manufactures offer extreme high end rifles for Competition. Those are not normal AR15s. They cost a lot more for those features. LaRue POF, LWRC, etc.

The term "mid tier" is a sales tactic term used to sell a product. It has zero to do with Stag other than people wanting to believe it does. You get no more out of another AR15. This "tier" stuff is a lie generated by salesman who when pressed into reality have no data to back up their claims. It was then adopted by fan-boys who know how to make cool and official looking charts...which were DESIGNED to prove the lie.

There are crappy AR15s. They have known flaws in relation to proper firearms manufacturing. Those flaws are;
1) Painted parts, not anodized parts
2) Substandard metal used when NORMAL usage requires higher grade
3) Improper tooling as seen in non-standard sized holes.
4) Non-standard parts, used in the non-standard holes.
5) Poor QA as seen in broken products shipped to retailers, anyone looking in the box can see the item is broke...so no one at the factory is looking at what is being placed in the box.

Salesman like to point at #2 and expand that to include abnormal use. They then make up "facts" to back up the abnormal use. They then trick fan-boys into thinking this abnormal use is common and there is a standard which solves this common problem. Its all BS. We are talking about the barrel Steel here. There is no data to back up a salesman's BS saying that 4140 is INFERIOR to 4150CMV. In fact as seen by US Military destructive testing and usage, 4150CMV offers NOTHING over the industry standard of 4140 weapons grade steel for semi-auto firearms. Most weapons have been and are still made using 4140. AK47s, Sigs, HKs, Beretta all make firearm barrels from 4140...its the industry STANDARD. These 4140 barrels are even in full auto firearms and no issues have been seen. The 4150CMV is more of an extreme "just in case" theory since some AR15s where going to be used as suppressive fire machine guns. In fact real world usage now sees 4150CMV could be a problem when used in suppressive fire machine guns.

The US military made a mil-spec detailing who, what, where, when and how 4150CMV is manufactured and tested. The US Military still authorizes and uses firearms that do not use 4150CMV. The Mil-spec is Mil-B-11595E. Its a standard a manufacture must follow if they are offering 4150CMV...it is not a standard, rule, law or requirement for barrels...thats the lie. The Military has NEVER, said all machine guns or all select fire guns, or all AR15s will use Mil-B-11595E. What they said was if you are going to offer 4150CMV it must be made in accordance with Mil-B-11595E.

Bolt testing……… No one has ever proved a Bolt that was tested was better than a bolt that was not. In fact a bolt what has marks indicating it was tested only offers the user the peace of mind over the one that was not tested. Manufacturing procedures at a quality manufacture already make sure the bolt is manufactured to a high standard. The mark of that quality means nothing. The military uses unmarked bolts. The Manufactures who supply to the Military use the same company Stag uses for Bolts...CMT. Its the process and procedures in the manufacture of the Bolt..Not what is stamped on the side that matters.

Shot-peening metal……... Long time ago the way to increase the strength of a firearm steel part was to shot-peen it. The basic process fires small beads of metal at the sides of a part and the constant hammering from those beads adds strength to the part. (there is more to it, but that’s it in a nutshell) Nowadays the part itself is made from a metal that exceeds the strength requirement for its use. So instead of asking, "Is the part shot-peened?" You should be asking, "Why the hell are you still using metal that requires shot peening to meet the basic strength requirement???" The metals in question are 8620, 9310 and Carpenter 158. Carpenter 158 is mil-spec, I am told 9310 is better than carpenter 158, but requires shot-peening to meet Mil-spec. In any case why require your manufacture add an extra step to meet a standard requirement? Isn't it better to simply use a metal that meets the requirement without that extra step??? It’s salesman BS pure and simple. It’s like asking for your Glock to be coated with a rust inhibitor. The standard Glock will not rust...why are you telling me yours needs an extra step to meet the standards Glocks already meet?

If you take 100 "Top Tier" AR15s and 100 Stag AR15s you will have nearly the same failure rates in all parts. They will operate the same. The minor differences are not what the salesman want you to think they are.

The salesman and fan-boys want you to think the minor BS is a major concern when in truth its mall-ninja stupid to worry about them. Even Law Enforcement Agencies have been conned by these salesmen. People want to think they have the best equipment money can buy. Salesman know this, so they sell them the "idea". The "idea" has nothing to do with reality, but it puts the users into a superior state of mind. It gives the common product a sales point to separate it from the pack of others...even if its a myth.

 

[CarnageRush]

An LE6920 below $1K is good IMO. Hell, I bought a Colt just for that prancing pony.

Besides, we all know AK's are better anyway.

 

[billt]

Besides, we all know AK's are better anyway.

There is quite a bit of truth in that statement. You rarely hear of anyone having an AK break. It is accepted fact it's the toughest battle rifle ever created. This in spite of the fact there is not a single part on them that "meets the TDP", or has been "tested" more than the entire Shuttle Program. Which everyone seems to feel is so necessary with an AR-15 in order to, "get a good one".

 

[Destro]

There is quite a bit of truth in that statement. You rarely hear of anyone having an AK break. It is accepted fact it's the toughest battle rifle ever created. This in spite of the fact there is not a single part on them that "meets the TDP", or has been "tested" more than the entire Shuttle Program. Which everyone seems to feel is so necessary with an AR-15 in order to, "get a good one".

why buy an Arsenal/Saiga when you can get a WASR right?

same quality

 

[jamil]

Knowing what you're getting has value. That's what mil spec gives you. If it's not mil spec, yeah, it could be better. But you have to either trust what someone else tells you, or research and inspect everything yourself. So no, mil spec's value isn't that it's the best quality. It's that it's a known quality.

 

[Fordtough25]

This thread makes me laugh, and make me realize why I visit INGO on a daily basis. AR's and AK's are so much the same idea but so different in reality. Waste of time arguing about that. Testing and brand importance is big for some people, me included. If you don't think you need it or care then buy whatever. That is the beauty of the American dream, choice. Not all countries enjoy that so be glad we can pick and choose. Please get back to your scheduled bickering now.

 

[tradertator]

Knowing what you're getting has value. That's what mil spec gives you. If it's not mil spec, yeah, it could be better. But you have to either trust what someone else tells you, or research and inspect everything yourself. So no, mil spec's value isn't that it's the best quality. It's that it's a known quality.

Haven't you learned anything from this thread?! All AR-15's are exactly the same, regardless who makes them, what they're made out of, or if the company actually checks them out before they ship! That goes for ammo too! Non chrome lined barrels are better than chrome lined ones because they're more accurate! We've all been duped for preferring the one with the pony on it "because they're built to "mil-spec", whatever that is " instead of the deer head ! They're lying to you , and Bill is here to set us all free! Snorko, whatever you do, DON'T BUY THAT COLT .

This thread has officially been

 

[billt]

why buy an Arsenal/Saiga when you can get a WASR right?

Read what I wrote, not what you want to think. Neither have been "Tested"....Have they?

 

[Destro]

if the company actually checks them out before they ship!

No need to worry about that! That's what lifetime warranty's are for!

 

[Destro]

Read what I wrote, not what you want to think. Neither have been "Tested"....Have they?

Your the one who drug AK's into it, I was trying to make the point that AK's rarely break, far from it. Like AR's, some brands are better than others.

 

[billt]

No need to worry about that! That's what lifetime warranty's are for!

So why then are you so concerned about all of this "testing" in the first place? I've got 10 year old Bushmasters with well over 5 digit round counts. All I hear is how inferior they are from all of the Mil-Spec guys. When are they going to break? In another 5,000 rounds? In another 10,000?.... Anyone who shoots AR-15's with any regularity will tell you it's always wise to have a complete spare bolt carrier group in your range bag. (Yes, I know that isn't going to help you when you're gun fighting all over the neighborhood, "trusting your life" to your weapon.) But I'm not seeing the comfort level you think your getting with all of this TDP crap. AR-15's simply don't fail that much. And when they do TDP or no, they all seem to do it at the same rate. And can be back in action in a few minutes.

Has anyone had a gas key come loose and tie up their gun? I haven't in a decade, and tens of thousands of rounds in a dozen rifles. I can honestly say I've never even read about it happening to anyone. Again, I'm not saying it can't happen, but if it does, it's so infrequent it's not worth the worry. And it certainly is something you can and should check every time you clean your rifle. So that being the case, why should I be so concerned if it's "properly staked"? Again, more needless concern over what amounts to basically nothing. Yet it is regurgitated constantly in threads like this one. Young's Manufacturing produces some of the highest quality AR-15 bolt carrier groups obtainable. None of them are staked. Here is why:

Young Manufacturing Factory Tour | AllOutdoor.com

"There are only a few true AR component manufactures making AR parts, and fewer who make the BCG."

To Stake or Not to Stake.........

There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Many an “expert” (including me) has advocated or indicated a preference of having the gas key staked. Young Manufactuering’s opinion is that they will not stake keys, nor have they since 1991, and this has never been even a minor issue from customers. Per YM, the US mil-spec assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked and sealed with Permatex gasket sealer.

Contrary to some popular opinions, staking does not “seal” the gas key, and in reality only has one function: to keep the screws from backing out. In addition, staking can cause problems. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds, you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. Although required, to YM’s knowledge, this is a process no one other than YM does."

So here you have one of the top, premier manufacturer of AR-15 bolt carrier groups in the country testifying that staking is not only unnecessary, but a bunch of hogwash that can and does cause more problems than it solves. Yet in every AR-15 thread ever written since the invention of the Internet, someone will always jump on the, "properly staked gas key" bandwagon. Worry about the weather instead. It has more bearing in your life. Yes, the TDP is a "standard". The problem worrying if your rifle meets or exceeds it, is like worrying about diarrhea when you're constipated. AR-15 fanboys will insult you if you post anything that is to the contrary. It's like pissing on the Bible.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy here. I just have trouble understanding why the AR-15 is the only rifle in existence that requires so damn much inspection and testing? How come bolts on most every other weapon produced, last longer than the owners of the rifle they're contained in? Their failure rate is less than all of these HPT / MPI tested AR bolts. In fact, it's all but non existent. When is the last time you ever heard of a bolt lug cracking off a Remington 700? A Browning BAR? Or most any other commercially sold weapon in this country?

I shoot Colt's as well as DPMS and Bushmasters. I take care of them all the same, and all of them function the same. If there is a quality difference in these guns, it's so small and has so little bearing on actual dependability, that it's mall ninja stupid to spend your time worrying about it. But like anything else in life, it boils down to whatever floats your boat. YMMV.

 

[mvician]

For a minute I thought I was on barfcom or the BRF on GT.........

 

[sig1473]

IBTL

 

[Co Th G]

There is quite a bit of truth in that statement. You rarely hear of anyone having an AK break. It is accepted fact it's the toughest battle rifle ever created. This in spite of the fact there is not a single part on them that "meets the TDP", or has been "tested" more than the entire Shuttle Program. Which everyone seems to feel is so necessary with an AR-15 in order to, "get a good one".

You also rarely hear of a QUALITY AR, one that's built as close to TDP as possible, break.

 

[sig1473]

 

[Co Th G]

So why then are you so concerned about all of this "testing" in the first place? I've got 10 year old Bushmasters with well over 5 digit round counts. All I hear is how inferior they are from all of the Mil-Spec guys. When are they going to break? In another 5,000 rounds? In another 10,000?.... Anyone who shoots AR-15's with any regularity will tell you it's always wise to have a complete spare bolt carrier group in your range bag. (Yes, I know that isn't going to help you when you're gun fighting all over the neighborhood, "trusting your life" to your weapon.) But I'm not seeing the comfort level you think your getting with all of this TDP crap. AR-15's simply don't fail that much. And when they do TDP or no, they all seem to do it at the same rate. And can be back in action in a few minutes.

Has anyone had a gas key come loose and tie up their gun? I haven't in a decade, and tens of thousands of rounds in a dozen rifles. I can honestly say I've never even read about it happening to anyone. Again, I'm not saying it can't happen, but if it does, it's so infrequent it's not worth the worry. And it certainly is something you can and should check every time you clean your rifle. So that being the case, why should I be so concerned if it's "properly staked"? Again, more needless concern over what amounts to basically nothing. Yet it is regurgitated constantly in threads like this one. Young's Manufacturing produces some of the highest quality AR-15 bolt carrier groups obtainable. None of them are staked. Here is why:

Young Manufacturing Factory Tour | AllOutdoor.com

"There are only a few true AR component manufactures making AR parts, and fewer who make the BCG."

To Stake or Not to Stake.........

There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Many an “expert” (including me) has advocated or indicated a preference of having the gas key staked. Young Manufactuering’s opinion is that they will not stake keys, nor have they since 1991, and this has never been even a minor issue from customers. Per YM, the US mil-spec assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked and sealed with Permatex gasket sealer.

Contrary to some popular opinions, staking does not “seal” the gas key, and in reality only has one function: to keep the screws from backing out. In addition, staking can cause problems. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds, you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. Although required, to YM’s knowledge, this is a process no one other than YM does."

So here you have one of the top, premier manufacturer of AR-15 bolt carrier groups in the country testifying that staking is not only unnecessary, but a bunch of hogwash that can and does cause more problems than it solves. Yet in every AR-15 thread ever written since the invention of the Internet, someone will always jump on the, "properly staked gas key" bandwagon. Worry about the weather instead. It has more bearing in your life. Yes, the TDP is a "standard". The problem worrying if your rifle meets or exceeds it, is like worrying about diarrhea when you're constipated. AR-15 fanboys will insult you if you post anything that is to the contrary. It's like pissing on the Bible.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy here. I just have trouble understanding why the AR-15 is the only rifle in existence that requires so damn much inspection and testing? How come bolts on most every other weapon produced, last longer than the owners of the rifle they're contained in? Their failure rate is less than all of these HPT / MPI tested AR bolts. In fact, it's all but non existent. When is the last time you ever heard of a bolt lug cracking off a Remington 700? A Browning BAR? Or most any other commercially sold weapon in this country?

I shoot Colt's as well as DPMS and Bushmasters. I take care of them all the same, and all of them function the same. If there is a quality difference in these guns, it's so small and has so little bearing on actual dependability, that it's mall ninja stupid to spend your time worrying about it. But like anything else in life, it boils down to whatever floats your boat. YMMV.

Improperly Staked Keys, Who Has Had Problems?
The Necessity of Gas Key Staking
Malfunction

 

[indyblue]

I bought my LE6920 (has restricted on it) about a 1 1/2 years ago when the buying frenzy was still relatively fresh. I probably overpaid ($1K) but I am a satisfied customer. It has run flawlessly with almost 1K rounds through it and is probably more accurate than I am (1.5MOA groups @ 100yds with a 4x Vortex Viper PST).

The only mods I am considering are a floating hand-guard and a trigger polish that seems easy enough.

I am not ashamed to own a Colt AR and don't believe I wasted my money. The real expenses come from things like the FF rail and I'd like a PRS and maybe a more powerful scope.