Colt LE6920 for $999.99

[SpaldingPM]

Basic moral of the story lol... if you honestly want an LE6920, buy a 6920. If you want an M&P15, buy and M&P15. If you want a DoubleStar, buy one.... they will be the same gun, with the same quality, and it will in turn perform for you the same. Differences will be in branded name, finish coating, and in some cases, barrel, but when you buy a mid level AR, you'll get milspec, it will run for a long time, and you wont be disappointed.

If you want an upper mid level, check out the BCM or LMT custom lines. Their base line products will be the same as above though, just like any proven and known milspec AR brand.

Upper end, KAC, LWRC etc... milspec + lots of custom internal's and ergonomic externals.... but really, you can turn any mid level into a upper end AR by modding.

 

[billt]

Basic moral of the story lol... if you honestly want an LE6920, buy a 6920. If you want an M&P15, buy and M&P15. If you want a DoubleStar, buy one.... they will be the same gun, with the same quality, and it will in turn perform for you the same.

BINGO! And we have another winner!

 

[SpaldingPM]

Do I win anything!?

 

[billt]

Do I win anything!?

Yes. You get to enjoy the feeling of actually telling the truth about AR-15 quality on an Internet gun forum. You could in fact be the first. Now.....Bring in the brand snobs, and PLEASE, don't forget "The Chart"!

 

[billt]

Actually Spalding, "You'll get nothing and like it!".........Ted Knight in "Caddyshack".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f6l1QljpMo

 

[Co Th G]

That is what I will be buying next time I get a 556 AR

You'll be disappointed as the FN15 isn't "mil spec".

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?143446-Is-FN-preparing-to-release-their-own-AR/page22

 

[Destro]

......NOPE......ain't a nickels worth diff in NONE of'em......

you should tell the .gov they are wasting their money chrome lining their bbls, using grade 8 fasteners and shot peening/mpi/proofing bolts. Since it's all the same...

 

[Destro]

brand snobs

TDP snobs....I really don't care what it says on the side if the price and specs are right, which is what most "brand snobs" will tell you

 

[billt]

you should tell the .gov they are wasting their money chrome lining their bbls, using grade 8 fasteners and shot peening/mpi/proofing bolts. Since it's all the same...

Chrome lining actually degrades accuracy. In that regard it does not make them "better". The problem with all of you Mil-Spec lovers, is you refuse to understand the term Mil-Spec in itself does not define quality. It simply means it meets a certain government standard of production and application. A MRE meal is Mil-Spec. It is hardly the finest food obtainable. The same with the green, anti corrosive paint that is applied as a base coat to most every government aircraft in our inventory. You wouldn't hire a guy to paint your house with it. CLP is anything but the best lubricant you can use on a firearm. Yet it is Mil-Spec. Federal XM-193 Ball is far from the best .223 / 5.56 MM ammunition you can buy, in spite of the fact it's Mil-Spec. This constant association with quality is a falsehood that lives on with the term Mil-Spec, every time it gets tossed around in threads like this one.

 

[Co Th G]

Chrome lining actually degrades accuracy. In that regard it does not make them "better". The problem with all of you Mil-Spec lovers, is you refuse to understand the term Mil-Spec in itself does not define quality. It simply means it meets a certain government standard of production and application. A MRE meal is Mil-Spec. It is hardly the finest food obtainable. The same with the green, anti corrosive paint that is applied as a base coat to most every government aircraft in our inventory. You wouldn't hire a guy to paint your house with it. CLP is anything but the best lubricant you can use on a firearm. Yet it is Mil-Spec. Federal XM-193 Ball is far from the best .223 / 5.56 MM ammunition you can buy, in spite of the fact it's Mil-Spec. This constant association with quality is a falsehood that lives on with the term Mil-Spec, every time it gets tossed around in threads like this one.

XM is not mil spec. Besides, the current issued ammo is either M855 or M855A1 to regular troops.

http://www.thegunzone.com/556xm.html

 

[billt]

XM is not mil spec. Besides, the current issued ammo is either M855 or M855A1 to regular troops.

Same deal.

 

[SpaldingPM]

Chrome lining actually degrades accuracy. In that regard it does not make them "better". The problem with all of you Mil-Spec lovers, is you refuse to understand the term Mil-Spec in itself does not define quality. It simply means it meets a certain government standard of production and application. A MRE meal is Mil-Spec. It is hardly the finest food obtainable. The same with the green, anti corrosive paint that is applied as a base coat to most every government aircraft in our inventory. You wouldn't hire a guy to paint your house with it. CLP is anything but the best lubricant you can use on a firearm. Yet it is Mil-Spec. Federal XM-193 Ball is far from the best .223 / 5.56 MM ammunition you can buy, in spite of the fact it's Mil-Spec. This constant association with quality is a falsehood that lives on with the term Mil-Spec, every time it gets tossed around in threads like this one.

YES!
and Co Th G... you get what he's saying. XM-193, M-193, same stuff. The current issue stuff is neither the m193 nor the m855 anymore, in 2010 I believe they changed to the m855a1 with somewhat of a polymer fragmentation tip that is ballistically efficient to the 7.62. It combines the light armor penetration of the standard m855 with the fragmentation of a frangible, in turn cutting down lead casting costs.

 

[SpaldingPM]

Now what I really want to get my hands on is some mk262 77gr to use out of my mk12 mod1 spr. That stuff is nastyyyy

 

[Co Th G]

YES!
and Co Th G... you get what he's saying. XM-193, M-193, same stuff. The current issue stuff is neither the m193 nor the m855 anymore, in 2010 I believe they changed to the m855a1 with somewhat of a polymer fragmentation tip that is ballistically efficient to the 7.62. It combines the light armor penetration of the standard m855 with the fragmentation of a frangible, in turn cutting down lead casting costs.

XM -193 and M-192 is NOT the same. XM are factory rejects that didn't meet mil-spec and are sold on the commercial market. M-855A1 has a steel tip with no polymer content.

 

[billt]

XM -193 and M-192 is NOT the same. XM are factory rejects that didn't meet mil-spec and are sold on the commercial market. M-855A1 has a steel tip with no polymer content.

And the point is there is commercial ammunition in the same caliber available from Hornady, Nosler, Black Hills, and about a half dozen other manufacturers out there that puts all of it to shame from a quality and accuracy standpoint. And none of it is Mil-Spec.

 

[Destro]

Chrome lining actually degrades accuracy. In that regard it does not make them "better". The problem with all of you Mil-Spec lovers, is you refuse to understand the term Mil-Spec in itself does not define quality. It simply means it meets a certain government standard of production and application. A MRE meal is Mil-Spec. It is hardly the finest food obtainable. The same with the green, anti corrosive paint that is applied as a base coat to most every government aircraft in our inventory. You wouldn't hire a guy to paint your house with it. CLP is anything but the best lubricant you can use on a firearm. Yet it is Mil-Spec. Federal XM-193 Ball is far from the best .223 / 5.56 MM ammunition you can buy, in spite of the fact it's Mil-Spec. This constant association with quality is a falsehood that lives on with the term Mil-Spec, every time it gets tossed around in threads like this one.

True mil-spec is, itself a quality. It's may be a minimum quality for the .gov but it exceeds typical commercial standards for a mass produced/off the shelf AR. Same with MRE's, they are some of the best long term storage food items that are mass produced and commercially available. Can you get cheaper stuff with the same amount of calories? Sure. M193 is some of the best mass produced ammo for self defense. You can get way better ammo for sure.....but cost wise 855/109/193

 

[Destro]

And the point is there is commercial ammunition in the same caliber available from Hornady, Nosler, Black Hills, and about a half dozen other manufacturers out there that puts all of it to shame from a quality and accuracy standpoint. And none of it is Mil-Spec.

that's not a fair comparison, a match grade AR will outshoot a milspec AR...so what?

match ammo outshoots milspec ammo...so what?


It would be more appropriate for the comparison to use Winchester White Box or PMC bronze (budget) vs. 193 (milspec) as an example.

 

[SpaldingPM]

XM -193 and M-192 is NOT the same. XM are factory rejects that didn't meet mil-spec and are sold on the commercial market. M-855A1 has a steel tip with no polymer content.

XM193 product is first run, first quality product manufactured at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant for Federal Cartridge and is made to Federal specifications typical for commercial ammunition. All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration.

 

[billt]

that's not a fair comparison, a match grade AR will outshoot a milspec AR...so what?

I'm not talking "match grade". Any AR-15 with a button rifled Stainless Steel barrel will outshoot a Chrome lined Mil-Spec barrel. Chrome lined is not "better". It just meets the Mil-Spec. Nothing more. Will Stainless hold up better than Chrome lined in heavy, full auto fire? Most likely not, which is why civilian rifles don't really need it. Look at all the AR-15 Varmint rifles sold. Most every one has a Stainless Steel barrel. They are more accurate.

The military has certain specs it needs met. Civilian rifles are not required to, or do they need to meet these specs. Because civilian rifles are used differently. As I mentioned, CLP was specified by the military for soldiers to be able to carry a single product to service their weapons with in the field. Civilian shooters do not require such a product, and have far better choices. Again, none of them are Mil-Spec. So what? The same with MRE's. I'd rather have a Wendy's Triple and a large fries any day. And I'll bet if you ask any soldier, they would too. But they can't, so Mil-Spec MRE's it is.

It's the same with barrel twist. 1:7, 1:8, 1:9, 1:11. They all have their place. No twist is better than the other without adding a requirement of length and weight of the projectile, use, and common supply. The only time you need a Mil-Spec 1:7 twist is if you plan on killing a human past 500 yards, and fire L-110 tracer rounds, and equip 100,000 troops. 1:8 will be more accurate, 1:9 will last longer in a semi-automatic, 1:11 will be best with the shortest projectiles and allows the bullet to tumble causing more damage on impact with soft tissue at close range.

And everything I just said can be debated until the end of the world, without a right answer being found. What I think is funny is I hear LEO’s and "experts" tell me they will not trust a 1:9 with their life. That tells me they have no idea what a twist rate is.... I wouldn't trust my life to 87 octane unleaded. This is what grandpa says because he has no idea what an engine does or how it works or what unleaded gas is.

This whole Mil-Spec thing is like a dog chasing a tail, for civilian shooters of AR-15's. Even if he catches it, what does he have?

 

[tradertator]

The argument about chrome lined vs non chrome lined is ridiculous when talking about a accuracy in a fighting style carbine like an AR-15. The difference is so minuscule (if even existent) that most shooters will never see a difference. We're talking about a semi auto 16" carbine, not an Olympic style match rifle. The service life is going to far surpass that of a non chrome lined one, especially if the shooter plans to really heat it up or put a lot of rounds through one.

Mil-spec is just a standard. It doesn't mean its superb, it doesn't mean its not. It simply falls within a set of guidelines and will get a certain job done. There is a level of assurance that comes with that, and lot of shooters appreciate it and are willing to pay for it. If you don't, thats fine. It's your choice, caveat emptor. As a civilian, we're not limited to what is issued to us, and can buy whatever we choose.

There are better rifles than the Colt, and there are many that are much much worse. But Colt is the current golden standard when it comes to an AR-15. If the OP decides to sell / trade it down the road, he's going to have a much easier time than if it said PSA, Double Star, etc........ They've been around a long time, built a lot of them, and have a great reputation. They don't sell stripped lowers, so you know that it wasn't built in some guys kitchen with the aid of a YouTube video. Not that there is anything wrong with building your own, I've done lots. But I don't see where your really saving that much, and it's nice to have a warranty / support if something happens down the road.