Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[halfmileharry]

Michael Bennett is on his arse for the Anthem now. He's got a couple of players standing on either side of him.

 

[jamil]

This is where this discussion belongs. It belongs in the public square where good ideas should survive the harshest criticism and bad ideas should be allowed to die. Kaepernick has a right to his own beliefs, and he has a right to express those beliefs. But he doesn't have a right to have his beliefs and actions go unscrutinized and uncriticized. His blackness gives him no special protection from public scrutiny anymore than anyone of any other race.

Kaepernick is full of **** and it's right that people should be able to stand up and say what **** he's full of.

This is a telling statement Jamil. I wonder how many others people think the same way. I thought Kap was under scrutiny because he took a knee, but obviously seem to think that he and his supporters believe it's because he is black. The indication is that if a white person had done the same thing, the backlash wouldn't have been so harsh. Where is that mentioned, Jamil? Kap's protest may be because of what he personally thinks concerning the treatment of black people, but doesn't translate to his personal scrutiny being about anything other than his act.

Kut, so exactly what is that statement telling you? Let's discuss it? But let's have an honest discussion. Best way to do that is to say the person is saying what he actually said. So let's try it this way. I'll say what I think you're trying to say, and then comment on that. And before you reply to my comment, you restate it so that I know you understand what I'm saying.

So I'm going to first assume that you've read and understood what Jim Brown said and that is the backdrop. I think you're saying that I wrongly believe that black people think the criticism of Kap is because he's black. That I think his supporters think that a white person doing the same wouldn't get the same backlash that Kap is getting. You seem to be making the point that I should consider that he was really protesting what he actually believes about the treatment of black people, that the scrutiny he's under is actually because of what he did and has nothing to do with his race. Did I get it wrong?

So what I think about that... I think Kap is under scrutiny because of his actions. It's very offensive to a lot of people to do what they see as disrespecting one's own nation. That's why I think he's under scrutiny. I think it has nothing to do with race. I think Kap really believes what he's protesting about, and I don't really believe he's right, but I'm sure he does. He is as entitled to his opinion as anyone. My disagreement is how he chose to protest. And I think I agree with Jim Brown, that if Kap wants to be an activist, he should probably quit football and do that. Otherwise, he should do what he's paid to do.

So about what I think people believe is the reason for the scrutiny, I think it depends on where one is ideologically, way more than what color one's skin is. I think most Americans, liberals, conservatives, moderates, regardless of race, who are critical of Kap, believe he was wrong for what he did, without much thought to why he did it. I think identitarians are really the only ones who inject race into the criticism of Kap. The leftist identitarians, regardless of race, are the ones claiming that the criticism is because of Kap's race. They are a minority but have a disproportionally large platform.

That's my clarification about what I think you think I'm saying, and an explanation of how I think race is involved in all of this. I haven't tried to clarify anything about the statement you said you found troubling. But given what I just said, I'd like you to reread that statement and then try to understand what I might have meant. I'd like you to honestly restate what you think it means.

Here's a hint for understainding what I'm saying. I don't believe in group identity blame or representation. No group is a monolith. We may classify groups in tendencies but individuals make up groups. Individuals are diverse. Always assume I'm saying what I say understanding that. That is a core belief. If you think I'm saying something that contradicts that, ask before assuming something the worst.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut, so exactly what is that statement telling you? Let's discuss it? But let's have an honest discussion. Best way to do that is to say the person is saying what he actually said. So let's try it this way. I'll say what I think you're trying to say, and then comment on that. And before you reply to my comment, you restate it so that I know you understand what I'm saying.

So I'm going to first assume that you've read and understood what Jim Brown said and that is the backdrop. I think you're saying that I wrongly believe that black people think the criticism of Kap is because he's black. That I think his supporters think that a white person doing the same wouldn't get the same backlash that Kap is getting. You seem to be making the point that I should consider that he was really protesting what he actually believes about the treatment of black people, that the scrutiny he's under is actually because of what he did and has nothing to do with his race. Did I get it wrong?

So what I think about that... I think Kap is under scrutiny because of his actions. It's very offensive to a lot of people to do what they see as disrespecting one's own nation. That's why I think he's under scrutiny. I think it has nothing to do with race. I think Kap really believes what he's protesting about, and I don't really believe he's right, but I'm sure he does. He is as entitled to his opinion as anyone. My disagreement is how he chose to protest. And I think I agree with Jim Brown, that if Kap wants to be an activist, he should probably quit football and do that. Otherwise, he should do what he's paid to do.

So about what I think people believe is the reason for the scrutiny, I think it depends on where one is ideologically, way more than what color one's skin is. I think most Americans, liberals, conservatives, moderates, regardless of race, who are critical of Kap, believe he was wrong for what he did, without much thought to why he did it. I think identitarians are really the only ones who inject race into the criticism of Kap. The leftist identitarians, regardless of race, are the ones claiming that the criticism is because of Kap's race. They are a minority but have a disproportionally large platform.

That's my clarification about what I think you think I'm saying, and an explanation of how I think race is involved in all of this. I haven't tried to clarify anything about the statement you said you found troubling. But given what I just said, I'd like you to reread that statement and then try to understand what I might have meant. I'd like you to honestly restate what you think it means.

Here's a hint for understainding what I'm saying. I don't believe in group identity blame or representation. No group is a monolith. We may classify groups in tendencies but individuals make up groups. Individuals are diverse. Always assume I'm saying what I say understanding that. That is a core belief. If you think I'm saying something that contradicts that, ask before assuming something the worst.

Tell me Jamil, for the post in question, would the meaning have changed if you had not included the second to last sentence? If you say no, it would not have changed, then you see the issue. If you said yes, because you believe that sentence is essential to the point you're trying to make, I see no other conclusion than to believe that you think that you thought Kap, and those that support him, believe that his blackness played a role in how he was viewed, and that had a white player done the same, they would have believed that he would've been treated better. I don't believe that. I think a white player would be treated the same way. "Blackness" or "Whiteness," doesn't really come into play as to why people oppose Kap.

 

[jamil]

Tell me Jamil, for the post in question, would the meaning have changed if you had not included the second to last sentence? If you say no, it would not have changed, then you see the issue. If you said yes, because you believe that sentence is essential to the point you're trying to make, I see no other conclusion than to believe that you think that you thought Kap, and those that support him, believe that his blackness played a role in how he was viewed, and that had a white player done the same, they would have believed that he would've been treated better. I don't believe that. I think a white player would be treated the same way. "Blackness" or "Whiteness," doesn't really come into play as to why people oppose Kap.

Yes. I added that sentence because it adds meaning to the overall statement.

But you impose a meaning I don't intend. I don't believe Kap thinks that he's being shunned because he's black, at least I'm not aware of him ever having said that. I don't think that all his supporters think that he's being shunned because he's black. For example, the NAACP, think that it's because Kaep is being blackballed by the NFL because of his activism about racism in America. I don't really have any reason to think that they mean the NFL is blackballing Kaepernick because he's black.

That sentence that you don't like does not refer to him and his supporters as a monolith, but to the leftist identitarian ideologues who HAVE BEEN INJECTING RACE into why Kaepernick hasn't been signed.

 

[bwframe]

Ray Lewis: Ravens were ready to sign Colin Kaepernick until 'racist gesture' by girlfriend

 

[bobzilla]

Ray Lewis: Ravens were ready to sign Colin Kaepernick until 'racist gesture' by girlfriend

some people can't help themselves from throwing the race card

 

[Brad69]

So this year when viewership drops even lower.
What will be the result?

Will INGO protest and demand I get a new job if I get let go for poor performance?

 

[Alpo]

Maybe it's time professional sports stopped getting a free license to use patriotism and our tax dollars to enrich owners and infantes terrible.

 

[KLB]

Maybe it's time professional sports stopped getting a free license to use patriotism and our tax dollars to enrich owners and infantes terrible.

That is just crazy talk

 

[Alpo]

No, crazy is paying to build a stadium with our tax dollars. Crazy is arguing about whether some football player is paying attention to a song written in a war that most Americans know ABSOLUTELY nothing about. You aren't a patriot because you attend a football game and sing the Anthem with a hand over your heart. You are either a patriot or you are not.

 

[jamil]

No, crazy is paying to build a stadium with our tax dollars. Crazy is arguing about whether some football player is paying attention to a song written in a war that most Americans know ABSOLUTELY nothing about. You aren't a patriot because you attend a football game and sing the Anthem with a hand over your heart. You are either a patriot or you are not.

I dont see anythign I'd disagree with here. But I would say Kaepernick would not even classify himself as a patriot. Or at least it'd be disingenuous to claim it while wearing a Castro tee shirt and flirting with the hammer and sickle.

 

[Alpo]

Football and Anthems. If it is a great expression of patriotism...why do the networks cut to commercials during its singing?

 

[JettaKnight]

Football and Anthems. If it is a great expression of patriotism...why do the networks cut to commercials during its singing?

Because it really is not that great of a song and more often than not sung badly?

 

[HoughMade]

Rumor has it that Kaepernick will protest by sitting out the next several years. That's his story and he stickin' with it.

 

[Vigilant]

It's probably been said, but CK isn't playing not because of his actions, but because his playing isn't good enough to justify the bad press and loss of revenue that could be associat d with his actions! If he were Tom Brady caliber player, he could have burned the flag while pissing on Washington's grave and saluting the flag of Cuba, and he'd have been signed!

 

[Expat]

So this year when viewership drops even lower.
What will be the result?

Will INGO protest and demand I get a new job if I get let go for poor performance?

The leftists will try to take credit for the drop since the NAACP is calling for us to boycott because the dip**** hasn't been signed to a team.

I will certainly frown to myself in support for you.

 

[HoughMade]

The leftists will try to take credit for the drop since the NAACP is calling for us to boycott because the dip**** hasn't been signed to a team.

I will certainly frown to myself in support for you.

I I were an idiot, I'd do like the protesters and boycott the NFL until it "looked like America" which means that Africa American men get only 6% of the playing slots instead of 70%.

....but since I'm not an idiot and just want to see the best players, I don't care about their race or ethnicity, only their merit.

 

[Expat]

....but since I'm not an idiot and just want to see the best players, I don't care about their race or ethnicity, only their merit.

That is just racist talk.

 

[HoughMade]

Football and Anthems. If it is a great expression of patriotism...why do the networks cut to commercials during its singing?

Why are you assuming that the networks would do anything to promote patriotism?

 

[jamil]

It's probably been said, but CK isn't playing not because of his actions, but because his playing isn't good enough to justify the bad press and loss of revenue that could be associat d with his actions! If he were Tom Brady caliber player, he could have burned the flag while pissing on Washington's grave and saluting the flag of Cuba, and he'd have been signed!

That's not the full story. He was a starter. His QB rating was in the bottom half of NFL starters, but there WERE several QBs who performed worse than him who still have jobs. So it's obviously not just about his mediocre performance. I used to think the same as you, watching some games he was in, and just concluding that he just doesn't have it. But then I looked at his stats and the truth they tell is that if his performance is the only reason he doesn't have a job, then there are several QBs with starting jobs now that shouldn't be playing either.

So I have to conclude he doesn't have a job for economic reasons. His value is diminished by the offsetting effect his negative perception of his character. I have no doubt that if he'd have just played last season like any other he'd likely still have a job, and if not with the 49'ers, with someone else. Maybe as a starter, maybe not. As it is, who wants to hire a QB who wore a Castro tee shirt in Miami, of all places. WTF was he thinking?

A value judgment I'm willing to make is that he is where he is because he put himself there, and there is nothing nefarious about why he's there. There is value in celebrities speaking out about causes they care about, but there are socially reasonable ways to go about it. His way was more divisive than healing, as is most of the way the left has dealt with their concerns.