Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[gunsisgood]

At a rally tonight Trump said any NFL player that doesn't stand for the Anthem should be fired.

I don't care what party you're from, calling for a private citizen to lose their job over their political beliefs is horse ****.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with politics.

 

[MCgrease08]

These sports figures have a job, working for an employer, providing entertainment to that business's customers. They are "On the Job" at the game, at every practice, and when ever they represent the team/franchise/owner/employer. When that Sports figure is off the job he/she can do what ever they choose, but when their working they are under the control of the employer and when they FAIL at their Job that employer has the right and responsibility to correct that failure.

I agree in theory that an employer has the right to set expectations and even dictate, to some degree, the behavior and actions of an employee while “on the clock.” But I think it’s important to point out that NFL players aren’t typical "at will" employees. They are under contract and those contracts are structured under a league-wide collective bargaining agreement that team owners approved. I have no idea if that collective bargaining agreement contains language specific to pre-game ceremonies or whether players must stand for the Anthem, but based on the current situation, I’d say it doesn’t.

The Employer has the right and duty to see his product is of good quality and services the customer. The customer has the right to obtain or discard the product. When a business sees that it's product is not being produced well or is not selling, that business has the right to FIX the problem. The NFL is declining in ticket sales and media viewership because the owners are failing to exercise their business rights to demand every employee meet certain standards while at work. It DISGUSTS me to see my Flag, my National Anthem, my Nation, and all the citizens that have served it insulted I WILL NOT participate, support, finance, or waste my time viewing those individuals, their activities, or the entertainment business they are destroying.

I don’t like seeing players kneeling during the Anthem either. I too find it extremely disrespectful, but I understand the reasons behind the stance they are taking. I also respect the fact that the flag is a symbol of the freedom that allows them to take that stance. In the grand scheme of things, for me, this has very little impact on whether or not I will watch football games. I don't have cable TV so any games I watch come over the antenna, so whether I watch or not is irrelevant to owners. I don't support the league with my dollars now, so there's nothing for me to withhold.

I would also point out that NFL owners have tolerated and even turned a blind eye to much more harmful, and sometimes criminal behavior from players. It’s a performance based league, so owners will let good players get away with things that might get a fringe player cut. That's why Kaepernick is out of the league. Not just because of the stance he's taking, but because he's just not good enough to be worth the drama.

We should also consider that it isn’t the owners taking this stance, it’s the president, wading into a personnel matter of a private business. Which I personally think is beneath the dignity of the office. I didn't like when Obama did it, I don't like when Trump does it.

Let’s also remember that a lot of NFL owners backed Trump, thinking he’d be good for business. Now he’s just shined a big old spotlight on an issue that owners presumably would rather just go away. So I’m guessing they likely don’t think Trump’s comments on the matter are very good for business this morning.

 

[MCgrease08]

I got pissed when Obama took sides on social issues, I certainly don't think any higher of Trump when he does it.

And that's a separate issue from what the NFL should do with Kaepernick. First the NFL can perhaps sanction Kaepernick. Fines, watever. The team pays him. It's up to them to decide if his value is worth the negatives. It's not for the president to opine on, just like it was not for President Obama to lecture us about race, while faking a factually incorrect position.

I completely agree. It's not the president's place to wade into these types of matters. Imagine the outrage we'd hear had Obama called on employers to fire workers who prayed before sitting down for their lunch break. I realize that's not a 100% equal comparison, but you get the idea.

Just look how pissed people got when Obama weighed in on the actions of police officers who mistakenly arrested Henry Louis Gates for trying to "break-in" to his own home. He didn't even call for the officers to be fired, just that in hindsight the decision by the officers was "stupid."

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with politics.

Not even a little bit? How do you figure?

 

[MCgrease08]

I agree with Trump, fire them!

What about the vendors in the stadium? Should an off-field or concessions employee also be fired for not stopping in their tracks to remove their hat and salute the flag during the Anthem? Do you think the owners are more concerned with a food service worker paying respect to the Anthem, or making sure the 10 people in line can buy their $12 beers before kick-off?

How about the fans at the games? Should they be removed from the stands if they don't stand for the National Anthem? What if they stand but don't take off their hat? Or does simply buying a ticket also allow someone to disrespect the flag without consequence?

If owners are truly committed to respecting the flag and Anthem, (I don't believe they are) then they should take a hard line approach and set the same standards for everyone, players and fans alike.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Yeah I don't know. The President has as much right to a personal opinion as anyone else. I haven't heard about him pushing legislation to make it illegal to sit for the anthem. I really don't know where I fall in that discussion. I disagree with what Trump said. I also disagree with Kaepernick, but they're both free U.S. citizens so

Edit: That may have come across as though I'm in favor of making it illegal to sit for the anthem. I am not in favor of that. I meant I don't know where I stand on a President expressing his/her personal opinions while holding office.

 

[Expat]

Like Trump or hate him, does anyone think he isn't going to give us his personal opinion whether we like it or not?

 

[bwframe]

As evidenced by the video that obviously some haven't watched;

[video=youtube;Z753TSAnB8Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z753TSAnB8Y[/video]

The speech was about values, pride in country and respect for our flag. Pointing out that NFL owners should fire their employees when they intentionally disrespect their country and fans is just an example.

 

[jd4320t]

I stand behind President Trump.

Last year when the players started kneeling and the NFL didn't do anything about it I stopped watching. A game wasn't on in my house all season. Haven't even watched a single minute this year. The NFL will eventually lose fans if they allow this to grow.

Being a pro athlete is a job. A job that allows them to be more influential than most other Americans. Any person with any authority in the NFL who allows players to do things like this doesn't deserve their position.

We're talking about players who can't badmouth referees without getting fined or suspended and people are ok with them using the NFL to push their political stance? There's something seriously wrong there.

 

[Kutnupe14]

-Kap's mom responds to her son being called a "SoB"
"I guess that makes me a proud B****"

-Trump recinds WH invite to Stephen Curry, via tweet, Lebron James responds
"You Bum, (Stephen) already said he ain't going."

Just more bad press the president doesn't need. It would be nice if he actually tried to run the country, rather than engage in insulting private persons and businesses.

 

[jamil]

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with politics.

Everything the president does has to do with politics. Even which shoes his wife chooses to wear. Ridiculous as that is, that is reality.

 

[jamil]

Yeah I don't know. The President has as much right to a personal opinion as anyone else. I haven't heard about him pushing legislation to make it illegal to sit for the anthem. I really don't know where I fall in that discussion. I disagree with what Trump said. I also disagree with Kaepernick, but they're both free U.S. citizens so

Edit: That may have come across as though I'm in favor of making it illegal to sit for the anthem. I am not in favor of that. I meant I don't know where I stand on a President expressing his/her personal opinions while holding office.

Yes. He does have as much right to an opinion as any individual. He also has a responsibility to be the president of the whole united states and not take sides on issues like these. This is no different than Obama saying if he had a son he'd look like Trayvon Martin.

 

[bwframe]

Wonder if this isn't the beginning of the end of professional sports as we know them? High dollar prima donna's bringing their politics to work won't continue to be supported by the fans that are rapidly bailing on them.

Entertainers as a whole should understand that pissing off 60-70% of the populace where their income comes from is a mistake.

NeverTrumpers gonna NeverTrump, but the president is just saying what the majority of America believes.

 

[jamil]

-Kap's mom responds to her son being called a "SoB"
"I guess that makes me a proud B****"

-Trump recinds WH invite to Stephen Curry, via tweet, Lebron James responds
"You Bum, (Stephen) already said he ain't going."

Just more bad press the president doesn't need. It would be nice if he actually tried to run the country, rather than engage in insulting private persons and businesses.

Well, here's a place where I'm going to agree with you.

Tribalism is saying it's not okay for your ******* to be an *******, but it's okay for ours. This is the value in taking the high road. How is the president taking sides calling Kaepernick a son of a ***** any more defensible than the president taking sides and saying if he had a son he'd look like Trayvon Martin? Obama was wrong for saying that. And Trump is wrong for saying this. If I'm pissed at Obama because of principle, isn't that principle equally applicable to Trump?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Matt Walsh had a good opinion piece on Facebook that I read this morning. This issue is a symptom not a problem. If we'd ignored this guy's antics, it would have gone away and we wouldn't now have school kids imitating him. We (as conservatives) care more about this, judging by the longevity of the outrage, than we did about Planned Parenthood practically commercially harvesting and marketing baby body parts.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Matt Walsh had a good opinion piece on Facebook that I read this morning. This issue is a symptom not a problem. If we'd ignored this guy's antics, it would have gone away and we wouldn't now have school kids imitating him. We (as conservatives) care more about this, judging by the longevity of the outrage, than we did about Planned Parenthood practically commercially harvesting and marketing baby body parts.

A guy who hasn't burned, looted, or destroyed anything.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

A guy who hasn't burned, looted, or destroyed anything.

Yeah I always thought the whole thing was a big ball of nothing.

 

[MCgrease08]

The speech was about values, pride in country and respect for our flag. Pointing out that NFL owners should fire their employees when they intentionally disrespect their country and fans is just an example.

When I think of things like values, pride, respect and country, it doesn't include calling a man I disagree with a "son of a *****" and calling for him to lose his job.

 

[MCgrease08]

I stand behind President Trump.

Last year when the players started kneeling and the NFL didn't do anything about it I stopped watching. A game wasn't on in my house all season. Haven't even watched a single minute this year. The NFL will eventually lose fans if they allow this to grow.

Being a pro athlete is a job. A job that allows them to be more influential than most other Americans. Any person with any authority in the NFL who allows players to do things like this doesn't deserve their position.

We're talking about players who can't badmouth referees without getting fined or suspended and people are ok with them using the NFL to push their political stance? There's something seriously wrong there.

So it sounds like the free market will take care of this as fans vote with their dollars. Then why does the president need to weigh in on it?

 

[Kutnupe14]

So it sounds like the free market will take care of this as fans vote with their dollars. Then why does the president need to weigh in on it?

He has a base satiate.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Warriors, accept Trump disinviting them to the WH.