Civilians?

[BehindBlueI's]

So, if you're in a hospital and you're not a doctor, you are a civilian?
If you're in a manufacturing plant and you don't work there, you are a civilian?
If you're in a church and you're not the preacher, you are a civilian?
If you're in a Burger King and you're not flippin' burgers, you are a civilian?

I reality, all of those EXCEPT the military member are civilians. The only difference is some have jobs to do and some are gawkers and should stay out of the way.

K. Those are all common use and all dictionary definition. Don't care enough to argue further.

 

[Que]

My Dad is one of those. He spent many years working on surface to air missiles designed to stop a Soviet nuclear attack, but he pushes back at being called a veteran because it was all stateside between 1954 and 1964.

This saddens me. I have many student veterans who refuse to apply for benefits or even use their GI Bill. Those who had a combat MOS will know acknowledge their status because they were never deployed. Others who were deployed reject their status because they were not in a firefight or did not have a combat MOS. The university's HR policy doesn't even recognize a veteran who has not served in combat, which I'm fighting to get changed. This policy is a federal recognition for the sake of counting the "veterans" being hired in the state, but my HR department can't find a way to provide the feds with their numbers AND recognize all of our veterans.

 

[Que]

I would like to read those.

You can Google the oath taken in many jurisdictions.

 

[JettaKnight]

K. Those are all common use and all dictionary definition. Don't care enough to argue further.

Forgive me for thinking your line of work may include jargon and uses of words that I don't have in common with everyone.
I'm not at home so I can't look it up in my AHD4 dictionary, but I leave you with this as a cautionary example from MW online:

Peruse | Definition of peruse by Merriam-Webster

: to look at or read (something) in an informal or relaxed way

: to examine or read (something) in a very careful way

 

[17 squirrel]

You can Google the oath taken in many jurisdictions.

And here I thought the member whom made the statement had the responsability to back up what was posted.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So what do you do when you have a police officer who also in the reserves or guard? If he's working as a cop, does he get to use the word civilian, and can admonish his non-military co-workers if they attempt to do the same?

 

[chipbennett]

So what do you do when you have a police officer who also in the reserves or guard? If he's working as a cop, does he get to use the word civilian, and can admonish his non-military co-workers if they attempt to do the same?

If he's in the reserve or guard, and isn't currently called up for service, then he's not active military. Insofar as he does act in military capacity as a reserve/guard (e.g. training, field exercises, etc.), then he is acting as a non-civilian; otherwise, he is acting as a civilian.

 

[KG1]

What you laypersons find to argue about never ceases to amaze me.

Kindly keep your laypersons out of this civilians thread.

 

[mdmayo]

It is simple: "civilian" means "one under civil law" - as distinguished from one under military law.

Our military personnel are non-civilian. Everyone else is civilian, including police officers, firefighters, first responders, and teachers (all of whom I have seen erroneously referred to as "non-civilian").

There is very real danger in ascribing an "other than civilian" designation to those who wield the power of the state, because it implies that such people are somehow above (or outside of) the civilian law. Law enforcement officers enforce civil law. They derive their power, authority, and duties from civil law. In carrying out those duties and exercising that power and authority, they remain subject to civil law.

Is a merchant mariner a civilian while at sea? I believe Admiralty Law governs, though I could be wrong...perhaps I'll look it up, what a novel idea?

 

[JettaKnight]

Well, it's settled.

On February 4, 2015, Wikipedia user XXzoonamiXX decided LEO and FF are not civilians. His source is MW's dictionary.

I suppose I can change it...

 

[foszoe]

What you laypersons find to argue about never ceases to amaze me.

Good to see the barristers get in on the act!

 

[mdmayo]

All LEOs are citizens; not all citizens are LEOs.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You can Google the oath taken in many jurisdictions.

And here I thought the member who made the statement had the responsibility to back up what was posted.

(note spelling and grammar corrections)

If you insist, sure, but that's what I did.

Let me google that for you <==Firefighters

Let me google that for you <==Police

Enjoy.

 

[foszoe]

I don't get upset , I don't have an issue, I can't find the right word...maybe slightly annoys me, is one can say one is a non civilian but if it becomes beneficial, the flash of one's membership card, moves one from civilian to non civilian in a manner that is not available to the non civilian civilian. I hope my response comes across as civil as I tried to make it because I don't want to be uncivil.

People r9781401300524eally get hung up on this, don't they? Like civilian is less than.

If you're talking military, if you aren't a military member, you are a civilian.

If you're on a fire scene, if you aren't a firefighter, you are a civilian.

If you're on a crime scene and aren't a cop, you are a civilian.

So, depending on the context, I may be a civilian or I may not...so what?

 

[wtfd661]

this is all I got

 

[eatsnopaste]

I've always just called them police, cops, fuzz (i'm old) five o, and firemen were HERO's.

 

[eldirector]

I've always just called them police, cops, fuzz (i'm old) five o, and firemen were HERO's.

Well, since definitions are mutable, Caitlyn is a hero.

Personally, I prefer to be both as accurate and precise (as I can). Bruce is not a hero, LE are civilian.

 

[17 squirrel]

(note spelling and grammar corrections)

If you insist, sure, but that's what I did.

Let me google that for you <==Firefighters

Let me google that for you <==Police

Enjoy.

Geepers Thanks, I appreciate you going out of your way to make your point.

 

[singlesix]

I have never believed there was malicious intent most of the time. I do believe the service aspect associated with the term is missing when used by most LEOs and others. And to make it clear, a military veteran is also a civilian.

I'm there with you, I'm proud of my service, but I am now a lazy, out of shape, jelly doughnut eating, civilian. If you are not in the military you are a civilian.

 

[Mgderf]

But what you never hear about is the lowly service technician ( electrician, plumber , HVAC, painter , elevator man and others ) that are attacked, robbed assaulted on a daily basis working in the slums and projects of America.
There's no statistics of that happening, but a Fireman gets hit with a rock and its on the evening news. ( and its not a knock against Fireman ) actually being a Fireman can be a really good gig.

Hear about it? I live it. I haven't been robbed or assaulted, yet, but I keep my head on a swivel and a pistol in my pocket.
I'm a private contractor. I end up going to all areas, at all times, but I'm always watching my 6.

Now to play devil's advocate,
I spent time in the U.S.M.C. I was honorably discharged, but no-one ever relieved me of the duties I swore an oath to uphold.
This, coupled with the old adage, "Once a Marine, always a Marine", I often think of the term "civilian" when I see the average citizen, but still don't feel like one myself.