Civilians?

[JettaKnight]

I believe the current use of the term dates back many decades. So much so that Websters had modified their definition.

Are you referring to Merriam-Webster, the whore of the dictionary world? They'll open up and let any meaning in...

It's an easy word to use to describe non LEO and non firefighters in instances where it is appropriate to differentiate between them. There is no malice or ill intent behind it as some are taking it.

I suppose but it still infers an "us versus them" mentality and a separate class structure. Let's just stop the divisions: we are all civilians under civil law. Now let's all hold hand and sing...

 

[JettaKnight]

It doesn't bother me. They willingly walk into burning buildings to save people. They can call me whatever they like.

What about doctors? They willing work long hours in disease ridden building to save people. How about high steel workers? They climb out on a ledge to build building that save people (well, at least from the rain). What about engineers? They willing walk in to offices filled with a-hole managers and marketing to make safer products that save peoples lives.

Like noted, walking into burning buildings sounds really dangerous, but when properly trained, equipped and led, it's not as dangerous as it seems.

Personally, I'd rather honor my garbage collector. He works a more dangerous job, is looked down on by everyone, doesn't get featured on the news, is never given a free meal, when his truck comes in the parade everyone leaves, doesn't ever get to rescue anyone, no glory, no kittens in his arms, just trash.

I got nothing against public servants, I just have the ability to look at things in factual way.

 

[KJQ6945]

Just so I've got this straight, anybody not in the Armed Services is a civilian?

So, the unarmed guys in uniforms at the Armed Forces Recruiting Station gets shot at, they call 911 and get the armed guys in uniforms to come to their aid, who are civilians. Perfectly clear now, I've got it!


In all seriousness, I have a hard time differentiating between two guys who put on different uniforms and get paid to pick up arms in defense of the people.

 

[chipbennett]

Just so I've got this straight, anybody not in the Armed Services is a civilian?

So, the unarmed guys in uniforms at the Armed Forces Recruiting Station gets shot at, they call 911 and get the armed guys in uniforms to come to their aid, who are civilians. Perfectly clear now, I've got it!


In all seriousness, I have a hard time differentiating between two guys who put on different uniforms and get paid to pick up arms in defense of the people.

Simple: one (the armed service member) is acting under the auspices and authority of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the other (the law enforcement officer) is acting under the auspices and authority of civil law.

 

[Leadeye]

Regardless of where you set the definition of civilian, those are the people paying the bills.

Really need to get past the "us verses them" aspect.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Simple: one (the armed service member) is acting under the auspices and authority of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the other (the law enforcement officer) is acting under the auspices and authority of civil law.

What existed first, the UCMJ, or the word "civilian?"

 

[foszoe]

I'll be honest, I didn't know there was so much butthurt over who could call civilians, civilians.

I wouldn't call it but hurt, I've been called worse and offended less, that said, I had personally thought civilian meant nonmilitary all my life until this thread.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I wouldn't call it but hurt, I've been called worse and offended less, that said, I had personally thought civilian meant nonmilitary all my life until this thread.

And I thought, for most my life, veteran meant either retired military or served in a combat zone.

 

[chipbennett]

What existed first, the UCMJ, or the word "civilian?"

Why does it matter?

 

[chipbennett]

And I thought, for most my life, veteran meant either retired military or served in a combat zone.

I don't see anyone here disputing that definition?

 

[foszoe]

And I thought, for most my life, veteran meant either retired military or served in a combat zone.

Did your family have a lot of folks who served in the military? I did, so I just thought veterans were those who had been in the military and could join the American Legion and drink beer. The VFW was a special class of veteran to me that approaches what you recall.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Did your family have a lot of folks who served in the military? I did, so I just thought veterans were those who had been in the military and could join the American Legion and drink beer. The VFW was a special class of veteran to me that approaches what you recall.

Lots. I'm the first not to go into the service. As I remembered it, vets were considered combat, or retired guys. That definition obviously has changed, too.

 

[Denny347]

Are you referring to Merriam-Webster, the whore of the dictionary world? They'll open up and let any meaning in...



I suppose but it still infers an "us versus them" mentality and a separate class structure. Let's just stop the divisions: we are all civilians under civil law. Now let's all hold hand and sing...

I can use ANY word to describe the "us vs. them" and that does not address the "us vs. them" mentality.

 

[chipbennett]

I can use ANY word to describe the "us vs. them" and that does not address the "us vs. them" mentality.

IMHO, it is referring to civilians as non-civilians, or something other than civilians - such as LEO - that perpetuates the "us vs. them" mentality. Recognizing that we are all viewed equally under the (civil) law facilitates unity.

 

[JettaKnight]

I can use ANY word to describe the "us vs. them" and that does not address the "us vs. them" mentality.

Just who are you calling "them"?

 

[JettaKnight]

In all seriousness, I have a hard time differentiating between two guys who put on different uniforms and get paid to pick up arms in defense of the people.

So... are armed security guards included in this blended class you've got in your mind?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[indiucky]

Lots of "civvies" are in dangerous jobs. Oil fields, mining, healthcare, etc... Public Servants aren't even in the top 10.

When that Indiana gun dealer got shot down in cold blood last year in North Vernon I did a quick bit of math to determine the number of FFL's in Indiana and the number that had been shot and killed or wounded in the last couple of years and mathematically it was a wee bit unnerving.....

But I am just a civilian, Kentucky Colonel title notwithstanding....

 

[gummergif]

I am sure what you say is true but I have heard it used maliciously by LEO. Said in a way to differentiate from the masses. It has been leveled at me once.

Say what you will - I would much rather be a "Civilian" than an "End User."

 

[KJQ6945]

So... are armed security guards included in this blended class you've got in your mind?

An armed security guard could be paid by anybody to guard anything. Apples to oranges.