CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[JettaKnight]

JettaKnight, to which confession does your church adhere?

Seriously? We're Baptist, and as such we break out in a nasty rash at the thought of confessions and creeds. We only hold to the Casserole Confession.

Beliefs ? Wallen.org

 

[T.Lex]

Thanks for the breakdown.

Looks like Baptist and other.

Whoa whoa whoa.

INGO is not a monolith. If you're really going to try to "understand" things instead of applying your own prejudgments and copy/pasting from other sites maybe a better approach would be to not lump very different things together.

If you really want to "understand," maybe you should start with listening to what is said here. (Or reading, as the case may be.)

 

[breakingcontact]

Of course it isn't a monolith.

Lighten up.

Whoa whoa whoa.

INGO is not a monolith. If you're really going to try to "understand" things instead of applying your own prejudgments and copy/pasting from other sites maybe a better approach would be to not lump very different things together.

If you really want to "understand," maybe you should start with listening to what is said here. (Or reading, as the case may be.)

 

[breakingcontact]

Interesting. You are Calvinist?

I suppose your affinity for the SBC steers you in that direction.

I too am reformed Baptist with less love for the SBC though I appreciate much of what Mohler has done at the SBTS.

My Reformed Baptist church holds to the 1689 LBCF.

Seriously? We're Baptist, and as such we break out in a nasty rash at the thought of confessions and creeds. We only hold to the Casserole Confession.

Beliefs ? Wallen.org

 

[T.Lex]

Of course it isn't a monolith.

Lighten up.

 

[JettaKnight]

Interesting. You are Calvinist?

I suppose your affinity for the SBC steers you in that direction.

I too am reformed Baptist with less love for the SBC though I appreciate much of what Mohler has done at the SBTS.

I, unlike my church's leadership, hold to all five points.
Also a big fan of Mohler.

Can we now move past the denominations and back to getting some of your thoughts? Because denominations and soteriology has nothing to do with the conversation we were having.

 

[breakingcontact]

It absolutely matters as it informs from where we come.

Different backgrounds have different views on how the church and government relate.

For instance a view like Luther on the 2 kingdoms or more of a view like Calvin on it.

I, unlike my church's leadership, hold to all five points.
Also a big fan of Mohler.

Can we now move past the denominations and back to getting some of your thoughts? Because denominations and soteriology has nothing to do with the conversation we were having.

 

[breakingcontact]

My software project is ahead of schedule but I'll add you to the stand up meeting.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to be hostile and I apologize if I some that way.


I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not saying the author is a bad guy, I'm not saying I'm right.
I'd say my stance on this issue is "squishy", hence my warnings as it's easy for this sort of thing to go sideways on you.



It's just that most of your posts are two or three short sentences, and T.Lex and I would really like you to expand upon them if you're really up for discussing this.

You've asked some questions:

(Note: I thought you were asking who's a "profiler" instead of "pro-lifer")
The answer is all of us in this discussion are much so. You'll find that those of us who discuss Christianity would be regarded as conservative and Gospel-centered.


But haven't offered up a lot of answer... not to complain, but maybe you're on a smartphone instead of at a desk where you should be doing debugging software that's week late....


I get no respect, I tell you.


Breakingcontact, you told me, "You're filling in a lot of gaps incorrectly." I'm really interested to hear where you think I'm wrong.

 

[breakingcontact]

God installs government over man to restrain evil here on Earth.

Punish evil and reward good.

When the government is perpetrating evil...Christians aren't to just go along with it because objecting is uncomfortable.

 

[T.Lex]

My software project is ahead of schedule but I'll add you to the stand up meeting.

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

 

[breakingcontact]

Government is a good and necessary thing.

I'm no anarchist.

 

[breakingcontact]

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

That's good watching right there.

 

[T.Lex]

God installs government over man to restrain evil here on Earth.

Punish evil and reward good.

When the government is perpetrating evil...Christians aren't to just go along with it because objecting is uncomfortable.

How concrete are you prepared to be about that?

Did God bring the Hutus to power in Rwanda?

 

[breakingcontact]

Plenty of examples in the bible and in history of God's people defying wicked government.

How concrete are you prepared to be about that?

Did God bring the Hutus to power in Rwanda?

 

[T.Lex]

Plenty of examples in the bible and in history of God's people defying wicked government.

Sure. There's also incest.

That doesn't create a requirement to act in those ways. Or do you take the position that it does?

 

[breakingcontact]

This is why our backgrounds matter.

Some believe more biblical commands apply than some others.

 

[breakingcontact]

Surely you understand the difference.

Sure. There's also incest.

That doesn't create a requirement to act in those ways. Or do you take the position that it does?

 

[T.Lex]

This is why our backgrounds matter.

Some believe more biblical commands apply than some others.

Surely you understand the difference.

Don't call me "Shirley."

Only noting the irony of certain biblical precepts apply "more ... than some others."

If we're talking "commands" - I think this thread has proven it is helpful to be specific. I'm confident we're all familiar with the 10 most common ones but is there another command that you would find pertinent? Something related specifically to governments? I think we're all sufficiently familiar with the "render unto caesar" part, too, so if that's what you mean, it would help to be explicit about that.

 

[breakingcontact]

We are called to obey government certainly. But government is not a monolithic thing.

Jeremiah has several instances of lesser magistrates interposing.

Paul himself escaped the authorities in 2 Corinthians.

Read verses 3 and 4 of Romans 13 as well.

Government is to bear the sword of God on Earth.

If some levels of government are no longer honoring God and bearing his sword justly, it is honoring to God to rally the magistrates to carry out their God appointed duties.

Don't call me "Shirley."

Only noting the irony of certain biblical precepts apply "more ... than some others."

If we're talking "commands" - I think this thread has proven it is helpful to be specific. I'm confident we're all familiar with the 10 most common ones but is there another command that you would find pertinent? Something related specifically to governments? I think we're all sufficiently familiar with the "render unto caesar" part, too, so if that's what you mean, it would help to be explicit about that.

 

[JettaKnight]

My software project is ahead of schedule but I'll add you to the stand up meeting.

Sorry, It was self-referential, and our company is small enough that our embedded software standup meeting is done at the urinal (alone!).

For instance a view like Luther on the 2 kingdoms or more of a view like Calvin on it.

That was 400+ years ago, things have changed. Let's be more contemporary.

If some levels of government are no longer honoring God and bearing his sword justly, it is honoring to God to rally the magistrates to carry out their God appointed duties.

Sigh... OK, you've given a few Biblical examples. I think we can all agree that unjust laws are not to be followed and some level of dissent is righteous. And I don't think how we feel about Calvin, Luther, Edwards, Augustine, or any other theologian has a whole lot of sway on us in this regard.


However, you still haven't given one modern day example or commented on the few examples I presented. In other words, illustrate some present day instance of this principle being put into practice.