CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Islam...

[Route 45]

[video=youtube;BwDxWDnl24M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwDxWDnl24M[/video]

Many interesting points of discussion in this video.

 

[foszoe]

Oh. So it's kinda like lent?

Please enlighten me with the similarities between the two as pertains to the video you quoted

 

[ATM]

We could talk about kunafeh....at least IndyDave would be interested.

You know, I have about a million more questions of people who believe in what you claim to if any would care to address the questions you skipped and go further.

I'll be here, available, reasonable, civil


...waiting.

 

[gunsisgood]

More interesting facts on the subject !

[video=youtube_share;ryvaiYWjfYE]http://youtu.be/ryvaiYWjfYE[/video]

 

[hog slayer]

68% of British Muslims polled believe non believers should be arrested and punished

Just happened across this in my reading and studies

 

[ArcadiaGP]

68% of British Muslims polled believe non believers should be arrested and punished

Just happened across this in my reading and studies

Would they act upon that belief?

Or perhaps only the radicalized ones? Which tend to be the actual issue here.

Have to imagine most Muslim people have a level of self-preservation, and don't necessarily think forcing Sharia Law is in their best interest. Perhaps some were raised a certain way, and just want to live their lives like you and I.

 

[Lelliott8]

Would they act upon that belief?

Or perhaps only the radicalized ones? Which tend to be the actual issue here.

Have to imagine most Muslim people have a level of self-preservation, and don't necessarily think forcing Sharia Law is in their best interest. Perhaps some were raised a certain way, and just want to live their lives like you and I.

I sympathize with those who are raised under a culture of highly oppressive Islamism. I have no sympathy for those who willingly adopt this doctrine, which can be filed in the category of "insane garbage" when given the most basic level of scrutiny. The actual issue is not so-called "radical" Muslims (they don't exist), but any Muslim that takes the texts literally and acts upon those beliefs in earnest.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I sympathize with those who are raised under a culture of highly oppressive Islamism. I have no sympathy for those who willingly adopt this doctrine, which can be filed in the category of "insane garbage" when given the most basic level of scrutiny.

Apostasy in Islam = Death. Perhaps those raised in it are choosing the safer route of just following along peacefully, and not getting themselves killed for speaking against it.

The actual issue is not so-called "radical" Muslims (they don't exist), but any Muslim that takes the texts literally and acts upon those beliefs in earnest.

Sure it is. There's a different debate going on regarding the "literal text" stuff, which I'm happy to stay out of... but not all Muslims act violent on religious beliefs. I think it's safe to label those that do as "radical"

 

[Lelliott8]

Violence is Islam. If you are a non-violent Muslim, you are either not practicing the religion in earnest, or you are supporting violence as a third party. If you don't do either of those things, you are considered a hypocrite and/or an apostate.

 

[BugI02]

Apostasy in Islam = Death. Perhaps those raised in it are choosing the safer route of just following along peacefully, and not getting themselves killed for speaking against it.

This sounds suspiciously like "I was a member of the Nazi party but I was not a Nazi" or "I was only following orders"

I think the Nuremberg Defense still won't fly

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So here's the cycle. We've done it several times already.

People tell me I'm supposed to be violent or I'm not doing it right.

Then I ask them to show me in the Quran where it says that.

Then people pick a few lines out of context, generally because that's what some anti-Islam propaganda site gave them.

Then we look at it in context and see it doesn't. It's orders for a specific battle, it's an admonishment against a very specific group at a very specific time, etc. and not some "10 commandments" all the time/for everyone "order" from God.

You have to wonder who benefits from the propagation of the "us vs them" narrative? Roughly 1/4 of the world is now identifying as Muslim, yet somehow "the trouble with Islam" doesn't affect nearly 1.6 billion people. Also, again oddly, it seems "the trouble with Islam" is pretty well contained among a certain geographic area rife with partisan violence and secular power struggles and certain groups of the socially disaffected. Without a "them", it's a lot harder to be an "us". In the Muslim world, dictators use it keep their position, focus the anger and angst against an outside source and make sure the "us" doesn't turn on the leader. Who's benefiting here? Who benefits by keeping us divided and afraid? Who literally profits by feeding you fear of your fellow man (other than the main stream media, fear sells almost as well as sex)? Rhetorical questions, but given my county alone gets about 150 murders a year and zero are due to Islamic terrorism...who benefits from getting the focus toward "them" as the source of fear? Just a thought. There's no huge conspiracy, no hidden master behind the curtain, just people holding power and people making dollars...

If you wish to paint Muslims as evil, you've got billions of people and centuries of history to choose from. Consider what any religion would look like if one were motivated against it and selected only the perceived negatives from so many data points. It's not tough to do, find any militant athiest forum and see for yourself (and of course one can equally paint the athiests). Frankly, at this point it's boring to me to see anyone try to tear down someone else's religion. It doesn't make me "win" or "better" to try to break someone else's faith. A guess on my part, but I suspect most people who have their faith broken do not join a "competing" religion, they simply lose faith from their lives. Men are wired to have faith, we're incomplete without it. There's a hole, a void, and I'd hate to be the man who helped make that void in someone else.

As such, I think it's best if I just move on from this thread. Those who wish to learn and understand have been given the resources to do so.

 

[Route 45]

Men are wired to have faith, we're incomplete without it. There's a hole, a void, and I'd hate to be the man who helped make that void in someone else.

You speak only for yourself. However you fell into this delusion, you don't have the right to speak for others when it comes to how we live our lives. Men are not "hard-wired" to have faith. People live full, happy and interesting lives just fine without the millstone of religion around their necks.

As such, I think it's best if I just move on from this thread. Those who wish to learn and understand have been given the resources to do so.

I wouldn't waste my time defending the indefensible either.

 

[ATM]

So here's the cycle. We've done it several times already.

People tell me I'm supposed to be violent or I'm not doing it right.

Then I ask them to show me in the Quran where it says that.

Then people pick a few lines out of context, generally because that's what some anti-Islam propaganda site gave them.

I didn't do anything like that. You posted some claimed beliefs and I asked questions about them. You're the one who retreated to posting Quran verses in lieu of reasoning through your beliefs with me. It certainly didn't come from some anti-Islam propaganda site, it came from your postings in this thread, conversationally.

...If you wish to paint Muslims as evil, you've got billions of people and centuries of history to choose from.

I didn't do anything like that. I haven't painted any Muslims as evil. Islam is the evil deception, Muslims are simply deceived.
The designer of Islam is my enemy, not those deceived by it.

...Frankly, at this point it's boring to me to see anyone try to tear down someone else's religion. It doesn't make me "win" or "better" to try to break someone else's faith. A guess on my part, but I suspect most people who have their faith broken do not join a "competing" religion, they simply lose faith from their lives. Men are wired to have faith, we're incomplete without it. There's a hole, a void, and I'd hate to be the man who helped make that void in someone else.

Islam is just a deception. I expose deceptions. If you adopted indefensible claims as your own personal religion, that's on you. Probably should have done your homework. It's not too late, you know, I'm showing just how easily and reasonably it can be scrutinized and exposed for what it is.

Don't fill that hole with any old counterfeit faith, it's not even a faith-shaped hole. Leave it empty until you find the God that can withstand scrutiny and properly fill it.

As such, I think it's best if I just move on from this thread. Those who wish to learn and understand have been given the resources to do so.

I have learned and I understand, thank you. Islam is a clever ruse. I pray that you're only dabbling in it and scrutinize it much further before it becomes a belief system for you.

Send more Muslims.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[hog slayer]

I have never spent time wondering how I might happen upon an Amish terror attack. I've never deployed to fight southern Baptist.

I Will admit, I believe you wholly believe that you are a part of something greater than yourself and better than yourself.

It's just the book. You can't escape the book without the violence.

 

[ATM]

You speak only for yourself. However you fell into this delusion, you don't have the right to speak for others when it comes to how we live our lives. Men are not "hard-wired" to have faith. People live full, happy and interesting lives just fine without the millstone of religion around their necks.

You have a hole only God can fill. You can't fill it with faith or religion. You may attempt to deny that or fill it with other things, but you will fail.

You can't fill it at all. Good luck.

 

[T.Lex]

@ATM - I find your recent comments particularly un-civil and downright insulting to BBI and, frankly, me, as I've presented some perspectives to try to help you. Alas, you appear to be deceitful about your goals in this conversation.

Since some judge Muslims for not calling out the uglier members of Islam, I feel compelled to call you out for yours.

 

[ATM]

@ATM - I find your recent comments particularly un-civil and downright insulting to BBI and, frankly, me, as I've presented some perspectives to try to help you. Alas, you appear to be deceitful about your goals in this conversation.

Since some judge Muslims for not calling out the uglier members of Islam, I feel compelled to call you out for yours.

I suppose I can thank you for your intent, but if you can't make a reasonable case for the opinions you hold, I'm hardly going to accept them as real.

Feel free to give me something more than your feelings on this matter and I will examine that.

 

[jamil]

Please enlighten me with the similarities between the two as pertains to the video you quoted

It's a joke. I don't use purple.

 

[T.Lex]

I suppose I can thank you for your intent, but if you can't make a reasonable case for the opinions you hold, I'm hardly going to accept them as real.

Feel free to give me something more than your feelings on this matter and I will examine that.

Will you examine your conscience and confirm whether you have an open mind to understanding Islam? Based on your deceptive statements in this thread, I'm not sure I'll be inclined to believe you, but it would be a start.

Further, as a Christian (supposedly), you take things as a matter faith for which there is no "reasonable case." Yet, you expect such a reasonable case from those of another religion? That's hypocrisy.