CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[T.Lex]

Daaaaang. And I thought my Pope v. death penalty post was stirring the pot!

 

[JettaKnight]

Daaaaang. And I thought my Pope v. death penalty post was stirring the pot!

Oh, don't think you've escaped! I just saw that in another thread and instantly thought about this subject.

 

[JettaKnight]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45042130

The Pope is instructing that the Catholic church's official position is that the death penalty is inappropriate in every case. Now. (Obviously, the church didn't always think so, and was in fact a major proponent of it at various times.)

The Pope and I disagree on that. But, since he's not speaking ex cathedra we're good. I do agree on the sanctity of human dignity.

And, I am open to my own faith experience growing to be more aligned on this point. But, since Pope John Paul II held a view closer to my own, I feel like I'm in pretty good company.

For some reason I was thinking that the Abrahamic Covenant had a clause about death penalties. And that covenant is still in force, right?

 

[T.Lex]

Abrahamic or Mosaic?

I think of the former as involving sacrifices and stuff. I'm not sure that's applicable... although maybe.

On the other topic, if we're being serious about the magistrate thing, shouldn't all Christians be able (or required) to agree on a single policy position on immigration, then the magistrates would be able to enforce that unified position?

 

[JettaKnight]

Abrahamic or Mosaic?

I think of the former as involving sacrifices and stuff. I'm not sure that's applicable... although maybe.

On the other topic, if we're being serious about the magistrate thing, shouldn't all Christians be able (or required) to agree on a single policy position on immigration, then the magistrates would be able to enforce that unified position?

You'd think so, but we can't even agree on what color the pews are suppose to be...

I'm going to say that immigration is probably one of those squishy things without a clear theological stance (like the death penalty).

 

[Hoosierdood]

Abrahamic or Mosaic?

I think of the former as involving sacrifices and stuff. I'm not sure that's applicable... although maybe.

On the other topic, if we're being serious about the magistrate thing, shouldn't all Christians be able (or required) to agree on a single policy position on immigration, then the magistrates would be able to enforce that unified position?

It was the Noahic Covenant that brought up the death penalty

 

[T.Lex]

It was the Noahic Covenant that brought up the death penalty

I thought that was the promise not to flood the world again?

Sure - death was certainly a part of that! But, I didn't think that related to any one particular person or case.

 

[historian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45042130

The Pope is instructing that the Catholic church's official position is that the death penalty is inappropriate in every case. Now. (Obviously, the church didn't always think so, and was in fact a major proponent of it at various times.)

The Pope and I disagree on that. But, since he's not speaking ex cathedra we're good. I do agree on the sanctity of human dignity.

And, I am open to my own faith experience growing to be more aligned on this point. But, since Pope John Paul II held a view closer to my own, I feel like I'm in pretty good company.

Ooooohhhhh...is he going to say "Backsies" on John Huss now? This will be fun. Maybe Huss will get a get out of Hell free card since the Church attacked "the inviolability and dignity " of poor Huss.

 

[JettaKnight]

I thought that was the promise not to flood the world again?

Sure - death was certainly a part of that! But, I didn't think that related to any one particular person or case.

Genesis 9:6

 

[T.Lex]

Indeed. While Huss may be at the front of that line (or towards it, at least), it will be a long, long line.

 

[T.Lex]

Genesis 9:6

Ah - thanks! And apologies to Hoosierdood!

I had forgotten that section of scripture.

Which, given my professional past and personal faith, is downright embarrassing!

(I represented the state in certain capital cases.)

 

[historian]

(I represented the state in certain capital cases.)

Admittedly, your arguing to the jury that there should be a "Short Drop and a Sudden Stop" was probably not the most effective argument...

 

[T.Lex]

Admittedly, your arguing to the jury that there should be a "Short Drop and a Sudden Stop" was probably not the most effective argument...

haha

Never had to argue in front of a jury, but a bunch of judges. Awkwardly, several (maybe even most) of the lawyers representing the death row inmates shared my faith tradition. That made for some interesting conversations about "how you can do what you do."

Although, it did lead to Sr. Helen Prejean (who I briefly met in a very public setting) publicly stating that I seemed like a decent person. So I guess I have that going for me.

 

[historian]

Although, it did lead to Sr. Helen Prejean (who I briefly met in a very public setting) publicly stating that I seemed like a decent person. So I guess I have that going for me.

I guess he didn't know about your posts here!

 

[breakingcontact]

Should Christians who feel that our immigration laws are immoral support this local magistrate?

What?

Your presupposition is that we should support all local magistrates no matter how they carry out their office?

If so, you are missing the point entirely.

If not, I do not see your point.

 

[T.Lex]

I guess he didn't know about your posts here!

I don't think she's much of a gun person.

 

[historian]

What?

Your presupposition is that we should support all local magistrates no matter how they carry out their office?

If so, you are missing the point entirely.

If not, I do not see your point.

Did you not read that post? Once again we have the great and amorphous world of what laws are immoral.

 

[historian]

I don't think she's much of a gun person.

Never know what she is packing under that habit. The long robes allow for all sorts of CC...

 

[breakingcontact]

Did you not read that post? Once again we have the great and amorphous world of what laws are immoral.

Of course I read it, but you knew that.

Why recoil against examining what laws are moral vs immoral? What laws are just and unjust?

Yes, it is certainly something with which we need to do with much care and study, but to just claim it is impossible, leaves us only at the mercy of man's laws.

 

[historian]

Of course I read it, but you knew that.

Why recoil against examining what laws are moral vs immoral? What laws are just and unjust?

Yes, it is certainly something with which we need to do with much care and study, but to just claim it is impossible, leaves us only at the mercy of man's laws.

But here is the thing. If you lived in SF or NYC, and the "lesser magistrate" refused to uphold a law you liked, what would you do? This is why having people attempt to nullify laws locally is a bad idea. It ends in anarchy. Even good Christians disagree about the death penalty. Would you want a prison guard to say, "Nope, not taking this guy to death row, it is against my beliefs, and furthermore, I will not let anyone else take him there?"