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CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity
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Moved from general religion thread.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
From the other thread, "mortal or venial sin".
Can someone Reader's Digest what that means for me?
Can someone Reader's Digest what that means for me?
Yeah! Someone explain that - with scripture.
Ah, I think that one's for me.
That's a Catholic thing (I think - I'm not sure if Orthodoxy has it, too). Here's the "real" answer:
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/mortal-and-venial-sin
Frankly, that framework doesn't get much play in the modern Catholic church, since so few are taught in the ways of the catechism. Historically, my perspective is that it was a way to help people habituate non-sinful behavior. Start by not doing the REALLY bad stuff and work toward not doing the still-bad-but-not-terrible stuff.
Yeah! Someone explain that - with scripture.
Done.
That link actually does a better job than I've ever seen on that topic.
Hoosierdood
Grandmaster
The idea that one can believe on Jesus and accept his sacrifice through faith as being sufficient to appease the wrath of God and make that person righteous, but then can commit certain sins that would negate that salvation is not only dangerous, but it is outright heresy. In my opinion, that teaching only imprisons people in fear to the organization/people who proclaim that teaching as coming from God. Unfortunately, there have been an abundance of people throughout history who have taken advantage of twisting God's words to control the masses.
In my study of Scripture, the only sin that would condemn a person to eternal separation from God is to reject His free gift once the Holy Spirit has convicted.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And the icing on the cake so to speak....
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
I could go on and on with references, but I wont for the sake of space. Lets just say that there may be portions of scripture that some have used to justify the idea that one can commit a sin that would negate the salvation that has been extended by God's grace. But for every verse that could be twisted to that extent, there are multitudes more that speak to the fact that once we are extended that grace through our faith, that Jesus' righteousness covers us and we will be presented blameless before God.
In my study of Scripture, the only sin that would condemn a person to eternal separation from God is to reject His free gift once the Holy Spirit has convicted.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And the icing on the cake so to speak....
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
I could go on and on with references, but I wont for the sake of space. Lets just say that there may be portions of scripture that some have used to justify the idea that one can commit a sin that would negate the salvation that has been extended by God's grace. But for every verse that could be twisted to that extent, there are multitudes more that speak to the fact that once we are extended that grace through our faith, that Jesus' righteousness covers us and we will be presented blameless before God.
Done.
Ah the good 'ole "James 2 tells us we need to work"...
Plus, the argument using Matt 12:32 to support the concept of mortal sins is specious, at best.
As to I John 5:16-18, a couple of commentaries:
Sam Storms: Oklahoma City, OK > Can a Christian Commit the Sin Unto Death? - A Study on 1 John 5:16-17
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-is-the-sin-not-leading-to-death-in-1-john-5
[video=youtube;PXuHVg9Uudw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXuHVg9Uudw[/video]
Hey now - I love a good hymn more than the next guy...
...Especially if it has lyrics about ducks.
[video=youtube;dR67HSs4RPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR67HSs4RPI[/video]
Yeah, I'm hooked on these videos right now.
Hoosierdood
Grandmaster
I've been saying this for years.
1. In The Garden
2. I'll Fly Away
3. The savior is Waiting
4. Away in a Manger
5. Beulah Land
And don't even get me started on Patriotic Hymns....
Last edited:
What! You don't just love singing America the Beautiful at church?
Speaking of theologically empty songs...
https://babylonbee.com/news/study-highway-hell-theologically-accurate-96-modern-worship-songs/
https://babylonbee.com/news/study-highway-hell-theologically-accurate-96-modern-worship-songs/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45042130
The Pope is instructing that the Catholic church's official position is that the death penalty is inappropriate in every case. Now. (Obviously, the church didn't always think so, and was in fact a major proponent of it at various times.)
The Pope and I disagree on that. But, since he's not speaking ex cathedra we're good. I do agree on the sanctity of human dignity.
And, I am open to my own faith experience growing to be more aligned on this point. But, since Pope John Paul II held a view closer to my own, I feel like I'm in pretty good company.
The Pope is instructing that the Catholic church's official position is that the death penalty is inappropriate in every case. Now. (Obviously, the church didn't always think so, and was in fact a major proponent of it at various times.)
The Pope and I disagree on that. But, since he's not speaking ex cathedra we're good. I do agree on the sanctity of human dignity.
And, I am open to my own faith experience growing to be more aligned on this point. But, since Pope John Paul II held a view closer to my own, I feel like I'm in pretty good company.
Should I?
Yeah, let's kick the sleeping dog...
Should Christians who feel that our immigration laws are immoral support this local magistrate?
Yeah, let's kick the sleeping dog...
Should Christians who feel that our immigration laws are immoral support this local magistrate?
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