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CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity
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I think that's kinda the crux (pardon the pun).
We ask people here on earth to pray for us.
Does something at death change whether those people can pray for us?
Yeah, they're not here, so they don't hear you.
Furthermore, when Indiucky asks me to pray for his family, he doesn't pray to me - he types; and I don't think he has a statue of me (a doll with needles, yes) that he kneels before.
Well....I've been meaning to talk to you about what I saw last time I was in his shop....
You think after we die, we go to heaven then listen to people on earth?
After I die, I want nothing to do with this crummy place.
indiucky
Grandmaster
DUDE!!!! He doesn't know about that....
I think we can. Whether we want to or not is probably a different issue.
Understandable. But, I think that when unified with the Infinite, things might change.
Perhaps more in the nature of "no looking back." But at the same time, there still might be a connection with those souls still here.
Hmm.
Being a Sola Scriptura guy, I'm not going to believe with a solid reference.
However, I'm also not going to outright deny its possibility without a solid reference.
Same as with aliens.
Being a Sola Scriptura guy, I'm not going to believe with a solid reference.
However, I'm also not going to outright deny its possibility without a solid reference.
Same as with aliens.
Following heretical theology will inevitably lead to heretical conclusions.
The question of saints and prayer need not involve kitchen sinking statues.
In a later post you claim Sola Scriptura, but, as most protestants, you selectively apply it.
Many will claim to extrapolate doctrine from passages that don't explicitly spell it out (TULIP), due to eisegetical reading.
However the onus is on you. The Bible is replete with passages about the body of Christ and members helping one another, several were quoted yesterday. In the past several others have been posted. ALL of these passages are DIRECTLY quoting characteristics of the Saints which make up the Body of Christ. It is not on us to show that after death this somehow changes and these characteristics are lost, if not then the self proclaimed principle of Sola Scriptura is somehow violated. Rather it is upon you to show US from Scripture where these characteristics of the Saints explicitly spelled out in Scripture are taken away at death in a chapter verse format to honor your tradition.
I would even be curious what you dogmatically state as to what happens to the person after death using scripture as proof of course. You can leave sinners out of it and just discuss the saints.
The question of saints and prayer need not involve kitchen sinking statues.
In a later post you claim Sola Scriptura, but, as most protestants, you selectively apply it.
Many will claim to extrapolate doctrine from passages that don't explicitly spell it out (TULIP), due to eisegetical reading.
However the onus is on you. The Bible is replete with passages about the body of Christ and members helping one another, several were quoted yesterday. In the past several others have been posted. ALL of these passages are DIRECTLY quoting characteristics of the Saints which make up the Body of Christ. It is not on us to show that after death this somehow changes and these characteristics are lost, if not then the self proclaimed principle of Sola Scriptura is somehow violated. Rather it is upon you to show US from Scripture where these characteristics of the Saints explicitly spelled out in Scripture are taken away at death in a chapter verse format to honor your tradition.
I would even be curious what you dogmatically state as to what happens to the person after death using scripture as proof of course. You can leave sinners out of it and just discuss the saints.
Had He revealed himself when you made the drawing?
Is it a sin now? If I have a crucifix with a representation of Jesus hanging on it, is that a sin too?
There is a fine line to walk. We are using Kevin DeYoung's book, and he makes a point that we can draw creation, but not make an image of God. He says that flannelgraph Jesus is fine, because it is God in human form. Therefore, it is not sin. But he says that the writers of the Catechism may find his take too weak and would have even banned paintings of Jesus.
Admittedly, I'm not sure where I fall on the spectrum, but I do know that flannelgraph Jesus (and most representations of Him) have caused much hurt among our minority brothers and sisters. Jesus was not 6', white, and certainly didn't have blue eyes and long flowing hair.
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I'm onboard with banning paintings of White Jesus.
Food for thought:
When I walk into an Orthodox Church, it feels like a church; I can't help but be reverent.
When I walk into an evangelical Protestant Church ca. 2010, it feels like a civic center with coffee and a theater.
On Good Friday when we set up a prayer walk, we set up stations that may have paintings or objects and you're suppose to stop and mediate about a particular thing... Is that different than an Orthodox Church the other 364 days?
On Good Friday when we set up a prayer walk, we set up stations that may have paintings or objects and you're suppose to stop and mediate about a particular thing... Is that different than an Orthodox Church the other 364 days?
Depends on if the words are Greek/Russian/whateverian.
I'm onboard with banning paintings of White Jesus.
Food for thought:
When I walk into an Orthodox Church, it feels like a church; I can't help but be reverent.
When I walk into an evangelical Protestant Church ca. 2010, it feels like a civic center with coffee and a theater.
On Good Friday when we set up a prayer walk, we set up stations that may have paintings or objects and you're suppose to stop and mediate about a particular thing... Is that different than an Orthodox Church the other 364 days?
I frequently complain about the lack of awe in Protestant churches. That is one of the things I'm somewhat sad about. I'm glad that we don't have statues to random saint whomever. I'm not really sure you should have the images. As Question 98 says:
So...my question is, why are you not meditating on the Word? Why do you need a picture? I get that pictures are easier, but easier isn't always better. Perhaps have a listening station with an audio recording of the passage someone is supposed to meditate on on a loop?
The pictures can serve as reminders. For example, the crucifixion. That's a Big Deal. It has many facets. Sure, it has some singularly important parts (sacrifice, death, resurrection) but that is only part of the story.
The Catholic tradition of stations of the cross. (Heya Greek-boy, do the Orthodox have that or an analog to it?) The full meditation takes time, but brings in far more of the details of the crucifixion than the high points.
Can that be done with a checklist instead? Sure. But, for most people, I don't think that would provide the same kind of connection.
The Catholic tradition of stations of the cross. (Heya Greek-boy, do the Orthodox have that or an analog to it?)
The full meditation takes time, but brings in far more of the details of the crucifixion than the high points.Can that be done with a checklist instead? Sure. But, for most people, I don't think that would provide the same kind of connection.
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