Church Plans Quran Burning on Sept. 11th

[Fletch]

All good points save that you seem to be forgetting that we are at WAR and they are doing their best to destroy us and to undermine our culture and your religion, the pre-dominant religion of this country.

I'm not forgetting the war; it simply has no bearing on my position.

I'm all for the provocation of the mussies, because when they lash out on a completely disproportionate scale, the entire world will then understand precisely the violence which they condone, and then even your excusable, noble reasons will have no merit.

I support free speech. I support the South Park guys doing what they're doing to kick the Islamic hornets' nest. Kicking hornets' nests is generally something of which I approve; indeed I do it around here with almost every post.

But it seems I keep having to restate this one simple point: context is everything. I don't support, morally speaking, the idea of Christians-as-Christians engaging in this sort of speech. I don't support the idea of the Church getting involved in this sort of thing. The message being sent here isn't "take your licks like everyone else", as with the South Park guys who take shots at everyone. The message here is "Christians hate Muslims", and that is a message the global Church doesn't need if it is to survive and do God's work.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm not forgetting the war; it simply has no bearing on my position.



I support free speech. I support the South Park guys doing what they're doing to kick the Islamic hornets' nest. Kicking hornets' nests is generally something of which I approve; indeed I do it around here with almost every post.

But it seems I keep having to restate this one simple point: context is everything. I don't support, morally speaking, the idea of Christians-as-Christians engaging in this sort of speech. I don't support the idea of the Church getting involved in this sort of thing. The message being sent here isn't "take your licks like everyone else", as with the South Park guys who take shots at everyone. The message here is "Christians hate Muslims", and that is a message the global Church doesn't need if it is to survive and do God's work.

I'm not talking about the war in Irafghanipakiranistan. I'm talking about THE war, which is unending and unyielding. We are warring at ideologies, and as it stands, they're winning simply due to their willingness to slaughter civilians. To counter that, they must be exposed as the butchering savages which they are. And they are most certainly that.

 

[Fletch]

I'm not talking about the war in Irafghanipakiranistan. I'm talking about THE war, which is unending and unyielding. We are warring at ideologies, and as it stands, they're winning simply due to their willingness to slaughter civilians. To counter that, they must be exposed as the butchering savages which they are. And they are most certainly that.

My response is the same.

 

[dross]

I'm not talking about the war in Irafghanipakiranistan. I'm talking about THE war, which is unending and unyielding. We are warring at ideologies, and as it stands, they're winning simply due to their willingness to slaughter civilians. To counter that, they must be exposed as the butchering savages which they are. And they are most certainly that.

I actually agree with this statement.


Now let's burn some Korans. That'll learn 'em.

 

[PatriotPride]

I'm convinced.

I'm now bursting with pride at my milky white skin, my good looks, and my large....well let's just say, certain majestic personal attributes.

I thought I should just be GRATEFUL at my good fortune of having been born here. I thought pride was reserved for the things I've earned, not the things that were bestowed upon me.

You have a very...interesting...outlook on pride. I doubt we are on the same page here. I'm proud AND grateful of my Italian heritage, but I'm hardly a racist. I'm PROUD to be an American. Did I earn that? NO. I was born American. I don't see the reasoning here.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I actually agree with this statement.


Now let's burn some Korans. That'll learn 'em.

No, but it will enrage them enough for them to do something stupid and violent which will demonstrate how violent they are. It's almost Pavlovian.

 

[Expat]

The problem, to me, arises when persons claim superiority based on that nationality or ethnic group.

Perhaps for some of you, you would be correct. But we all know (and Fenway will likely back me here as if I recall correctly he is a fine young Irishman) that the Celtic peoples really are superior to the rest.

 

[flagtag]

Unless, of course, one is of Irish AND Italian decent.

 

[Woodrow]

Unless, of course, one is of Irish AND Italian decent.

Looks like you're asking for a car bombing and a set of cement shoes!

 

[rambone]

WHY DO PEOPLE HERE SEEM TO PROTECT THE OPPRESSIVE CULT KNOWN AS ISLAM?

Islam gets no more protection from me than any other person or group. All should be equal in the eyes of the law. If someone rapes, murders, or steals, they should be brought to justice based on their actions, as individuals.

Well, tell that some some INGO folks who think it's quite OK to burn the Flag, but doom if you wish to burn the koran.http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/111611-obama-calls-african-americans-a-mongrel-people-

Burning the flag is legal, and so is burning books.

I support the right to do so, but I think people who do are idiots.

I refuse to let my emotions get the best of me because something offends me. People get offended and start clamoring for more laws and more powerful Government. These people are the biggest idiots of all.



I'm embarrassed by this church's decision.

 

[flagtag]

Looks like you're asking for a car bombing and a set of cement shoes!

Giggle

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

You have a very...interesting...outlook on pride. I doubt we are on the same page here. I'm proud AND grateful of my Italian heritage, but I'm hardly a racist. I'm PROUD to be an American. Did I earn that? NO. I was born American. I don't see the reasoning here.

Maybe a little clarification is in order here...

Sounds like there may be confusion between what I said and what Dross said... so I'll clarify what I was thinking and Dross can throw something in if he agrees or disagrees. Or not...

I personally think it's FINE for you to take pride in your heritage! I'm happy that I'm a [Scandihoovian Northern Euro Mutt Whatever I am]. Where I personally draw the line is in my treatment of others. I try my best to treat them all alike - until they have proven themselves to me one way or the other. Deeds and Character far outrank who someone's parent's happen to be in my book. Doesn't matter to me who your parent's are - but it does matter to me who YOU are and where you're going. So if you're white, brown, purple or green - who gives a flying rip? And no, you don't get extra credit from me if you're another [Scandihoovian Northern Euro Mutt Whatever I am]. That would be intellectually inconsistent.

For those who say that we are at war with Islam - I say that we are at war with those who make war with us.... and our list of enemies are long - we have no need to add to it without good reason! Not all muslims are at war with us. Militant wahabists - well, they are. And we should be merciless against them. There are many who are at economic cold war with us - China, Russia, etc. We would do well to put our own house in order and defeat our enemies via prosperity and moral / ethical living rather than spew hate and burn books as an act of intimidation/hate/information destruction.... We would be wise in my opinion to consider our actions, and what we wish to accomplish, carefully. Then act accordingly. I don't think that book burning or prejudice based on heritage gets us where we really want to go. There are better paths for us to follow.

 

[techres]

I tell my kids all the time, "Grownups make bad decisions when they are angry or scared."

It's true of their side and it is true of ours.

I knew an author once who was told his book might be burned by protesters. He told me, "Good Lord I hope so, they can buy and burn as many copies as they want. Really!"

Bad decisions...

 

[sepe]

I think this is really stupid, a good way to show hate of whole based on actions of a few. I've got a few Muslim friends and I can tell you right now that 9/11 and the Ft. Hood shooting (in which one of my good friends from childhood was shot and killed...knew him since I was about 6 years old and he was 7, I'm 31 now) did NOT even come close to changing my views of the Muslims I know.

Judge by the man and not solely by his affiliation to something that you don't like/understand. We all know that there are extremists in ALL religions but there are also good people.

 

[JBusch8899]

I'm still not understanding how individuals equate all of one religion with terrorism.

However, to put it in perspective: If all of Islam necessarily = Al Qaeda, et al; ergo, Christianity must by definition = Ku Klux Klan.

 

[Ogre]

All good points save that you seem to be forgetting that we are at WAR and they are doing their best to destroy us and to undermine our culture and your religion, the pre-dominant religion of this country.

Changes aren't permanent, but change is, and whether it will be for better or worse is up to us. I'm all for the provocation of the mussies, because when they lash out on a completely disproportionate scale, the entire world will then understand precisely the violence which they condone, and then even your excusable, noble reasons will have no merit.

Last time I heard we are at war with "terrorism", Al Queada and the Taliban. Since when did we declare war on all Muslims?

 

[Expat]

Last time I heard we are at war with "terrorism", Al Queada and the Taliban. Since when did we declare war on all Muslims?

Once again this is part of the problem that we face. We want to pretend that we are only at war with those two organization. Just like before 9/11, we wanted to pretend we were not at war with anyone. The problem is that there is a vastly larger group that considers themselves at war with us. Certainly we are not at war with all Muslims, but the enemy is vastly larger than you want to admit in this comment.

 

[Expat]

I'm still not understanding how individuals equate all of one religion with terrorism.

However, to put it in perspective: If all of Islam necessarily = Al Qaeda, et al; ergo, Christianity must by definition = Ku Klux Klan.

Wow, you used some latin...

 

[Ogre]

You think the Amish would accept Islam?? Im curious how you reached this conclusion.
I didn't, where did I say that?
Yes, I admire the Amish. Surrounded by vice and degenerancy, they stand strong.

Not abunch of Christian-in-name, but practicing Christians, who do they're absolute best to follow CHRIST, not Churchanity, which exposes the political will in doctrine.

My favorite News caption this past year, was how Pelosi wanted the Catholic Church to promote how God would endorse immigration of an illegal nature, but that same twisted hag would certainly be the first to interject to Conservative Christian views being promoted.

Ofcourse I mock pascifism, as it's being taught to Christians. Again, had 9/11 occured 60 years ago, when America was a REAL, no BS Christian Nation, there would be NO HEARTS AND MINDS, not a single consideration for the sensitivity of our foes, we'd smash them as they have deserved, and God help them if they said they declared war upon the West.

There would be NO Stagnation in Iraq or Astan, and we would NOT have pathetic leaders in the Military creating R&R which are counter to safety of the boot on the ground.

Christianity has a proud heritage of Warrior ethos. Jesus was not a peace hippy. His own action proved this.

And no, you will recieve no points from me regarding Fascism, Hitler or some muslim site which denounces Anti-semiticism.

Here's some food for thought you can chew brother.

The Holocaust of Christians occured under the Communist Flag, that is 20 to 60 MILLION dead Christians, for BEING Christians.
So if you want to talk Fascism, than Im going to hit you with Communism, Bolsheviks, Marxism and Trotskism

Hitler, has nothing on Lenin or even Trotsky, who even after his death, his vile message lives, and lives strong in America.

As for a Muslim being Anti-Semitic - Well freaking hurrr durrr. A muslim is racially Semitic. For a Muslim to be Anti-semitic is just plain crap logic, promoted by a media agenda to make a boohoo victim.

It should be noted that those who cry "Anti-semitic" regarding Islam, are not truly Semitic themselves, atleast regarding a comparison between Muslims.

I was going to refute them point by point, but it would do nothing but get you to stray further from my original premis, of which you never truely addressed. Your hypocricy, you claim to admire and want to learn from the Amish, yet you mock and disdain pascifism, which is of their primary tenants. Whether they would "accept" Islam has no bering on this discussion.
For typing so much, you say so very little.

 

[Compatriot G]

Once again this is part of the problem that we face. We want to pretend that we are only at war with those two organization. Just like before 9/11, we wanted to pretend we were not at war with anyone. The problem is that there is a vastly larger group that considers themselves at war with us. Certainly we are not at war with all Muslims, but the enemy is vastly larger than you want to admit in this comment.

I believe I posted this in the thread about the Muslim soldier, but I think it bears repeating. If only 10% of Muslims are "radical" or whichever term you like to use and if there are approximately 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide, then we are only at war with 160,000,000 Muslims.

My personal thought is that Islam is a false, vile, wicked religion. It is not a religion of peace. If the church in this story wants to burn korans, then that is their business.