Certain dog breeds...I just don't get it.

[yote hunter]

When people are young and bitten by the so called yip dogs "That never ever gets reported" it has effects on kids as they grow up and the way the feel about dogs in general... So if the yip dog bites were reported and recorded then the whole bite numbers would be a lot different then what has been reported here... Just food for thought...

 

[MBTech]

Howdy neighbor!

How is calling it a "neurotic little yap dog" making an excuse? I blamed the dog not my mother. I simply pointed out that the result of a bite is far different than that of a pit.

The bullet analogy does not fly for me. We all know a 22 can kill just as much as anything else. I seriously doubt that my mothers miniature poodle could kill you if you were tied down and unable to fight back.

The part where you down played the "snap" is making excuses for the dog. Calling it a "get out of my space" snap is what I was referring to. The snap is the same. It doesn't make the small dog any less vicious.

As far as the bullet analogy goes, you proved my point. Everything is capable of killing. Just because something is smaller doesn't deem it any less a threat.

Off topic, you check out Uncle Rudy's gun range yet? They had an open house I went to and it seems decent. They are going to allow up to .308. .308 @ a max of 25 yards isn't gonna be pretty lol

 

[CZB1962]

When people are young and bitten by the so called yip dogs "That never ever gets reported" it has effects on kids as they grow up and the way the feel about dogs in general... So if the yip dog bites were reported and recorded then the whole bit numbers would be a lot different then what has been reported here... Just food for thought...

I have not said that pits attack more often, just that when they do the results are often grave. It's logical that only a severe mauling or death would make the news. It just seems that when it does make the news, more often than not its a pit. And I don't buy the "media only reports the pits" notion anymore than I do that the media only report minority crime. News is news.

 

[CZB1962]

The part where you down played the "snap" is making excuses for the dog. Calling it a "get out of my space" snap is what I was referring to. The snap is the same. It doesn't make the small dog any less vicious.

As far as the bullet analogy goes, you proved my point. Everything is capable of killing. Just because something is smaller doesn't deem it any less a threat.

Off topic, you check out Uncle Rudy's gun range yet? They had an open house I went to and it seems decent. They are going to allow up to .308. .308 @ a max of 25 yards isn't gonna be pretty lol

Sorry, but we are going to have to disagree on this one. "Downplaying" a snap from a miniature poodle is in no way making an excuse for the dog. It is just a reality that the bite from that 10 Lb dog could never produce the injury from a large breed dog. It's just a fact.

My point was that many small breeds are more prone to bite than the large breeds due to their insecurities and the fact that they feel threatened easier than large breeds. I am actually blaming the breed here just as much as I am the pits. I also realize that a Shepard, Golden, Lab or any other large breed dog has the capability to cause grave damage. I just don't see that many news reports of those breeds causing severe injury or death. And again I don't buy the concept that the media only reports pit attacks and ignores all other breeds. If anything the trend has gone to not name the breed at all so as not to appear biased.

No I have not been to Uncle Rudy's. One issue I have is that they say they don't allow hand loads. I only shoot reloads now in all my handguns so that is an issue for me.

 

[MBTech]

Sorry, but we are going to have to disagree on this one. "Downplaying" a snap from a miniature poodle is in no way making an excuse for the dog. It is just a reality that the bite from that 10 Lb dog could never produce the injury from a large breed dog. It's just a fact.

My point was that many small breeds are more prone to bite than the large breeds due to their insecurities and the fact that they feel threatened easier than large breeds. I am actually blaming the breed here just as much as I am the pits. I also realize that a Shepard, Golden, Lab or any other large breed dog has the capability to cause grave damage. I just don't see that many news reports of those breeds causing severe injury or death. And again I don't buy the concept that the media only reports pit attacks and ignores all other breeds. If anything the trend has gone to not name the breed at all so as not to appear biased.

Pointing out that small dogs are more prone to bite along with listing reasons as why they are more prone to bite, is in fact making excuses for them. I don't see how you are not understanding this.

Also, I agree with you about small breeds vs large breed bites. That's what I've been saying this entire time but you down play the small dogs bites because of the simple fact that they aren't as damaging as large breeds, which is wrong. Small dogs don't bite for different reasons than large dogs, period. You give reasons and excuses why small dogs bite but you don't give that same courtesy to large dogs.

Maybe someone else can explain this better than I can?

 

[Bill of Rights]

Arguing the seriousness of the injuries as a rationalization for one's own fear of something is like saying that no one should drive cars because scooters can get people from place to place and the collisions are less damaging. No, the scooter doesn't drive itself, and the dog has the physical ability to attack on its own, but the scooter or car also cannot be trained not to have collisions. The idea that people may only have X breed of dog if they're licensed trainers begs the question: why do you trust a "licensing" board so highly? It's not like everyone on the road who is involved in a car collision isn't supposed to have a license to drive, and yet, we still have collisions.

For me, the bottom line is that if you don't want a large breed dog, don't get one. Truthfully, yes, you'll be safer not having a dog of that size, but not because of the dog, rather because of your own fear. I did a presentation for gun rights at my local library a few years ago. One of the attendees, a woman in her early to mid 60s or so, I'd guess, raised the thought of "Well, why can't they just take it away from you and use it on you?" I picked up a TV remote and pointed it at her, from perhaps 10-15 feet away, and said, "Go ahead. Take this "gun" away from me." The point was to illustrate that when one has the will to use their gun, the situation in her question does not happen. Likewise, with a large dog, if you don't have the strength, the presence, to let the dog relax and follow you rather than attempt to lead you, yes, you might have problems. That's not an insult to anyone. Fear does a serious number on that strength of will. If you're safer in your mind with a smaller dog, more power to you. Just please don't project your fear of some type of inadequacy to that task on everyone else. Sure a large breed dog has bigger teeth and a stronger jaw. If I drop a BB and a 1# ball bearing from the second story window onto your head, the BB is probably going to do less damage, all else being equal. In other news, water is wet.

I trust my dogs. I trust them more than I trust most people. No surprise; I know them better. I don't assign human qualities to them, but I know they look at us as their pack, and they will defend us, just as they expect us to defend them. All dogs have the talents that their breeds allow them. The annoying little ankle-biters do a great job of sounding the alarm when they sense danger (trouble is, they sense danger in a frickin' dust mote!) Conversely, the larger breeds can stop those dangers, while their trouble is the idiots who try to train them to be strong and vicious. Stop those idiots and the reason for the fear (though admittedly, probably not the fear itself) disappears.

Some people like that sign, "Never mind the dog, beware of the owner." Sadly, most of them probably don't know how true that is... though not for the reason they mean.

And no, HamsterStyle... I don't have a microphone to drop.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[CZB1962]

Pointing out that small dogs are more prone to bite along with listing reasons as why they are more prone to bite, is in fact making excuses for them. I don't see how you are not understanding this.

Also, I agree with you about small breeds vs large breed bites. That's what I've been saying this entire time but you down play the small dogs bites because of the simple fact that they aren't as damaging as large breeds, which is wrong. Small dogs don't bite for different reasons than large dogs, period. You give reasons and excuses why small dogs bite but you don't give that same courtesy to large dogs.

Maybe someone else can explain this better than I can?

An excuse implies that you are excusing someone or something from fault. Many here have said "blame the owner" which excuses the dog from his actions. Blaming a trait of the dog, ie small dogs are neurotic, does not excuse their behavior. Are you telling me that when my nieces dogs attacked and killed a neighbors dog who was on a leash in his yard that they were intimidated by the smaller dog?

I don't begin to claim to understand the motive behind every dog bite and frankly I don't care. I am just saying for the umtenth time that I do not understand why people are so attracted to pits given the number of attacks that are well documented.

BTW I am not against large dogs. In fact I prefer them, but the fact is they can do more harm than small dogs so when I choose a large dog, I choose a breed who I can't YouTube 460,000 videos of when I put in xxxxbreed attack.

 

[phylodog]

I am just saying for the umtenth time that I do not understand why people are so attracted to pits given the number of attacks that are well documented.

Lots of people are attracted to lots of things that I don't now and never will understand. As long as their choices aren't harming me I'll live and let live.

 

[actaeon277]

I am just saying for the umtenth time that I do not understand why people are so attracted to guns given the number of attacks that are well documented.


Made a small change.

 

[CZB1962]

I am just saying for the umtenth time that I do not understand why people are so attracted to guns given the number of attacks that are well documented.


Made a small change.

Totally BS comparison. A gun is an inanimate object that can be used by a human to do harm while an animal can do harm all on their own.

A better analogy would be "I am just saying for the umtenth time that I do not understand why people are so attracted to criminals given the number of attacks that are well documented"

 

[BugI02]

An excuse implies that you are excusing someone or something from fault. Many here have said "blame the owner" which excuses the dog from his actions. Blaming a trait of the dog, ie small dogs are neurotic, does not excuse their behavior. Are you telling me that when my nieces dogs attacked and killed a neighbors dog who was on a leash in his yard that they were intimidated by the smaller dog?

I don't begin to claim to understand the motive behind every dog bite and frankly I don't care. I am just saying for the umtenth time that I do not understand why people are so attracted to pits given the number of attacks that are well documented.

BTW I am not against large dogs. In fact I prefer them, but the fact is they can do more harm than small dogs so when I choose a large dog, I choose a breed who I can't YouTube 460,000 videos of when I put in xxxxbreed attack.

THIS is SPECIOUS. Just now when I Googled 'assault rifle killings' the page count was 2,580,000 - better give up that AR

 

[BugI02]

"Every time a soccer mom stands up and demands harsher penalties for drunk driving, or selling cigarettes to minors, or owning a pit bull, or not recycling, she is petitioning the state to use force to impose her will." - Jack Donovan

 

[CZB1962]

THIS is SPECIOUS. Just now when I Googled 'assault rifle killings' the page count was 2,580,000 - better give up that AR

Again, a total BS comparison. First the rifle is an inanimate object that take a human to be dangerous. Secondly I said YouTube but if you want to compare numbers I Googled "pit bull attack" and got 6,080,000 results. That's 3 times the results and dogs aren't even a hot button political issue.

 

[BugI02]

The criticism is directed at trying to use number of internet hits as indicitive of anything. Searching youtube for UFOs turns up 798000 hits, indicative of what underlying truth?

 

[jamil]

Ya but UFO's are real.

 

[CZB1962]

"Every time a soccer mom stands up and demands harsher penalties for drunk driving, or selling cigarettes to minors, or owning a pit bull, or not recycling, she is petitioning the state to use force to impose her will." - Jack Donovan

I have never advocated any restrictions, I just said I don't understand why people choose this breed. Having said that are you saying you are against penalties for drunk driving and do you condone selling cigarettes to children?

I am as against stupid laws like recycling but a society needs some laws.

 

[CZB1962]

The criticism is directed at trying to use number of internet hits as indicitive of anything. Searching youtube for UFOs turns up 798000 hits, indicative of what underlying truth?

I agree with your premiss for the most part that the number of hits does not prove anything conclusively. However they can be used statistically to make a point.

For example the search "pit bull attack" brings up 460,000 YouTube hits while "Golden Retriever Attack" brings up 42,700. Many of the pit attacks are repeats, but a lot of the Goldens are sarcastic actually showing gentle dogs and vice versa. Given the likelihood that an equal % of both are not actually valid, you still have 10x more results. Proof, no. High level of circumstantial evidence, Yes.

As for UFO's, well there are a lot of people who are crazy, but those videos do not show actual aliens like the dog attacks show dogs.

 

[BugI02]

Correct, but this isn't just a conversation between the two of us. Speaking to the whole thread although at times may not seem that way. Just a reminder of the steel fist that lies behind any rule/regulation. "Pits should be put down on sight." - reference post #71

 

[CZB1962]

Correct, but this isn't just a conversation between the two of us. Speaking to the whole thread although at times may not seem that way. Just a reminder of the steel fist that lies behind any rule/regulation. "Pits should be put down on sight." - reference post #71

Agreed. That is an inflammatory statement that I don not believe reflects most of us. Certainly not me.

 

[Bill of Rights]

An excuse implies that you are excusing someone or something from fault. Many here have said "blame the owner" which excuses the dog from his actions. Blaming a trait of the dog, ie small dogs are neurotic, does not excuse their behavior. Are you telling me that when my nieces dogs attacked and killed a neighbors dog who was on a leash in his yard that they were intimidated by the smaller dog?

I don't begin to claim to understand the motive behind every dog bite and frankly I don't care. I am just saying for the umtenth time that I do not understand why people are so attracted to pits given the number of attacks that are well documented.

BTW I am not against large dogs. In fact I prefer them, but the fact is they can do more harm than small dogs so when I choose a large dog, I choose a breed who I can't YouTube 460,000 videos of when I put in xxxxbreed attack.

Short, simple answer: Mine haven't done it and won't, and if one did, it would be visiting the vet for the last time. Yes, that would sadden me, but I won't have a dog like that, because we train them not to be that way. Not every pit or every whatever breed is an attacker, any more than every Black person is a thief (to go back to my first post in this thread) You have no issue with having friends who happen to be Black, and welcome them as friends, race being irrelevant. Why would the breed (or "race") of the dog matter?

I have never advocated any restrictions, I just said I don't understand why people choose this breed. Having said that are you saying you are against penalties for drunk driving and do you condone selling cigarettes to children?

I am as against stupid laws like recycling but a society needs some laws.

If parents exercised their God-given authority and actually raised their children rather than parking them in front of TVs, etc., we would not need stupid laws forbidding children from buying tobacco. Mind you, this is being written by someone who does not smoke, never has, never will, and despises tobacco's very existence. I wish it had never been found to have properties people liked. That said, I don't favor laws against it in any form. I favor education and its removal from society by attrition.

As for drunk driving laws, I'd have there be a method to gauge someone's actual impairment, were it possible. We've taken the easier route with our laws, setting a single numeric standard at which all people are judged to be impaired. We all know people who defy the meaning of that standard in both directions. Show me that *this person* is causing harm and I am ALL OVER preventing them from driving again by whatever means we come up with that is reliable in affecting only them.

You're right. We need some laws. We need laws that address real things that are bad in and of themselves, not things that are bad because someone doesn't like them. In law, they call those "mala in se" vs. "mala prohibita" laws. You don't favor breed specific legislation, you say, but much of your posted thought process is what leads others to impose mala prohibita laws like that.

Blessings,
Bill