Brace Ban

[Vigilant]

First atf recalled factory braced firearm.

Did you even read it? The ATF is going after these because Black Aces took too much liberty and started adding “spacers” to adjust the length of pull, thereby establishing “intent” to use it in an illegal manner. More stupid gun owners/manufacturers “asking” (read as thumbing their collective noses at)the ATF for “clarification”. Hey Mr. Revenuer, is it okay if I take this brace and add stuff to make it shoulder more comfortable like?

 

[Vigilant]

The issue is you CAN NOT take the folding brace into account for OAL (according to ATF, which makes complete sense on a pistol) the shotgun firearms rely on OAL to not be a SBS, without the brace they are NOT over 26” as there’s no smoothbore pistol the only choice is SBS

They were also being spanked for “spacers” to improve “length of pull”.

 

[BigRed]

This is why they want a national red flag law. They wouldn't implement sweeping confiscation all at once, they could do it a little at a time. At first it would probably be people that actually are a little crazy, most people wouldn't object. After they get the population used to the idea then they can start digging through social media and start going after people with questionable opinions. The media is working to divide the country and attempting to lump groups of people together, even when they don't share the same beliefs (example: "all Trump supporters are racists and bigots"). They would begin taking firearms from "hate groups" and "domestic terrorists". From there it is a domino effect. If they do it slowly enough and people don't resist, it will never end until it's too late...

Bingo.

And with respect to Leonidas, I expect Isaac Davis was told much the same by veterans that guessed wrongly on people hard pressed.

 

[Ggreen]

Did you even read it? The ATF is going after these because Black Aces took too much liberty and started adding “spacers” to adjust the length of pull, thereby establishing “intent” to use it in an illegal manner. More stupid gun owners/manufacturers “asking” (read as thumbing their collective noses at)the ATF for “clarification”. Hey Mr. Revenuer, is it okay if I take this brace and add stuff to make it shoulder more comfortable like?

Oh you mean how kak braces have multiple detents, sb braces, pdw braces.... Most braces are adjustable now. So yes I read it and i know how these determinations get expanded on.

 

[Trigger Time]

People have different arm lengths. Its not the governments job to tell us how to shoot our firearms. This crap is so stupid

 

[jamil]

They opened up a comment period, but they didn't read it. Bumpstocks took a long time due to several lawsuits and coming up with a way to redefine machine gun. The atf now has the foundation to rapidly change their own rulings on legality of accessories.

As long as there are anti-gun zealots on the bench the lawsuits against the infringements will go down in flames. We may live in a nation of laws, but it’s run by people. The people running things just interpret the laws in whatever way that lets them get their way.

 

[jamil]

This is why they want a national red flag law. They wouldn't implement sweeping confiscation all at once, they could do it a little at a time. At first it would probably be people that actually are a little crazy, most people wouldn't object. After they get the population used to the idea then they can start digging through social media and start going after people with questionable opinions. The media is working to divide the country and attempting to lump groups of people together, even when they don't share the same beliefs (example: "all Trump supporters are racists and bigots"). They would begin taking firearms from "hate groups" and "domestic terrorists". From there it is a domino effect. If they do it slowly enough and people don't resist, it will never end until it's too late...

When you say it, it sounds a little

”They’re comin’ ta take muh guns!”

But then we think about reality, and this is the mind of thing people openly say now. Politicians! I’ve heard people say, if you’re carrying a gun in public, there’s something wrong with you, and it should be taken away.

Years ago, it wasn’t as evident. Coming to take our guns? Nah! Never happen. Then politicians take to Twitter and say things like “cold dead hands? Okay.” This is no longer tin foil hat territory. They’ve made their intentions clear.

They blame law abiding gun owners for these mass shootings. They’ve said as much. That we have that blood on our hands. Now, saying that we’re :tinfiol: for thinking they’re coming for our guns is the deluded position. We’re potentially a handful of senators away.

 

[Tombs]

When you say it, it sounds a little

”They’re comin’ ta take muh guns!”

But then we think about reality, and this is the mind of thing people openly say now. Politicians! I’ve heard people say, if you’re carrying a gun in public, there’s something wrong with you, and it should be taken away.

Years ago, it wasn’t as evident. Coming to take our guns? Nah! Never happen. Then politicians take to Twitter and say things like “cold dead hands? Okay.” This is no longer tin foil hat territory. They’ve made their intentions clear.

They blame law abiding gun owners for these mass shootings. They’ve said as much. That we have that blood on our hands. Now, saying that we’re :tinfiol: for thinking they’re coming for our guns is the deluded position. We’re potentially a handful of senators away.

You just have to understand their actual intent behind gun control. If they cared about going after the most commonly used firearms in crimes, they'd only be talking about pistols, you'd never see a peep about rifles. That isn't their goal though.

Their goal is to make sure the average American citizen has no means to defend themselves against the government; to eliminate any possible resistance to their future plans. They know that a large percentage of the public would have an armed revolt if they shredded the constitution in a blatant manner and started sending people to prison for "hate speech."

So they go after what is the most suitable tools for people to defend themselves in such a situation.

 

[Cameramonkey]

You just have to understand their actual intent behind gun control. If they cared about going after the most commonly used firearms in crimes, they'd only be talking about pistols, you'd never see a peep about rifles. That isn't their goal though.

Their goal is to make sure the average American citizen has no means to defend themselves against the government; to eliminate any possible resistance to their future plans. They know that a large percentage of the public would have an armed revolt if they shredded the constitution in a blatant manner and started sending people to prison for "hate speech."

So they go after what is the most suitable tools for people to defend themselves in such a situation.

Dont be silly. That's crazy talk! Its not like Feinstein was ever quoted "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban, picking up every one of them....Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in. I would have done it...."

Handy reminder thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NOWTTYG/new/

 

[88E30M50]

And he's not wrong. What hasn't changed over time? Guns. They're still just an object that can do absolutely nothing without an intelligent mind behind it. What has changed over time? People minds/thoughts and culture

This is what they’ll use against us. They will argue that society cannot handle the free availability of firearms any longer. Their own actions continue to weaken the minds of the average person and they then point to that and will say that firearms need to be restricted because people are no longer able to control themselves when in possession of them.

 

[dan45]

Have'nt even got my 1st brace pistol yet, i hope they dont ban them.

 

[bwframe]

There is still no further info on this than "the sky is falling," right?

 

[dudley0]

Funny thing is I just built a pistol this weekend. I had a brace so I added it.

 

[Ggreen]

There is still no further info on this than "the sky is falling," right?

A pretty significant letter was sent out on the 16th. Posted up thread.

 

[BE Mike]

Find a crime committed with an NFA gun by the actual owner, not a stolen NFA gun. Their whole argument now is background checks. Can’t get any more invasive than the NFA check. My point is that if you are worried about the flavor of the day with stocks, braces, attachments etc, just SBR it and you can do whatever without worry.

If you really work/ worked for the government, you would know that background checks for hiring and security clearances are much more "invasive" than those for the purchase of NFA items. You also say that law enforcement wouldn't come and confiscate firearms that are ruled illegal. There will always be those officers and supervisors who would do any bidding to climb the ladder of success. There is also the pressure to keep one's job to support his/ her family. Defying a direct order is a firing offense. Maybe we didn't work for the same government.

 

[Ggreen]

If you really work/ worked for the government, you would know that background checks for hiring and security clearances are much more "invasive" than those for the purchase of NFA items. You also say that law enforcement wouldn't come and confiscate firearms that are ruled illegal. There will always be those officers and supervisors who would do any bidding to climb the ladder of success. There is also the pressure to keep one's job to support his/ her family. Defying a direct order is a firing offense. Maybe we didn't work for the same government.

The I paycheck excuse is the worst possible answer. I've walked out of numerous jobs due to safety or ethical concerns. It shows character, constitution, and grit which is actually a positive in an interview.

 

[JettaKnight]

So, after looking at another thread, and looking at some products out there... How are those not buttstocks? I mean, really, does anyone ever wrap that strap around their forearm? Am I suppose to do that with a home defense [STRIKE]SBR[/STRIKE] pistol?

I'm just thinking, how are these not illegal without a stamp? I'm not a fan of Byzantine laws, so when I see these, but then someone says, "no, you see, we add this useless bit of velcro and then we pretend there's a loophole in the law..."

 

[BE Mike]

So, after looking at another thread, and looking at some products out there... How are those not buttstocks? I mean, really, does anyone ever wrap that strap around their forearm? Am I suppose to do that with a home defense [STRIKE]SBR[/STRIKE] pistol?

I'm just thinking, how are these not illegal without a stamp? I'm not a fan of Byzantine laws, so when I see these, but then someone says, "no, you see, we add this useless bit of velcro and then we pretend there's a loophole in the law..."

In reality these interpretations depend upon who's in power. They also have nothing to do with reducing crime or increasing firearm safety, so the question is mute. In Canada, for example, a short barreled rifle is not a restricted item. In many countries in Europe, suppressors (silencers) are not a controlled firearm accessory. This is all about people, who really have no clue, imposing their will upon gun owners because they can, not for any benefit to society. To respond to your specific question, If ATF can nitpick over the interpretations of useless laws, I suppose it is only fair for manufacturers and individuals to do the same. Of course the best solution would be to rescind all the old laws and start over with something that is meaningful, but this will never happen. People who don't use a particular item aren't likely to defend it when the politicos want it banned from society. I believe I've heard that cell phones are a contributing factor in several auto accident deaths per day in the U.S., but they will never be banned. The vast majority of folks use them and wouldn't stand for it. Gun owners are at the mercy of the news media and politicos who steer public opinion.

 

[KG1]

So, after looking at another thread, and looking at some products out there... How are those not buttstocks? I mean, really, does anyone ever wrap that strap around their forearm? Am I suppose to do that with a home defense [STRIKE]SBR[/STRIKE] pistol?

I'm just thinking, how are these not illegal without a stamp? I'm not a fan of Byzantine laws, so when I see these, but then someone says, "no, you see, we add this useless bit of velcro and then we pretend there's a loophole in the law..."

A lot of gun owners and manufacturers who are into pistol braces are glad that you don’t make policy for the ATF right now.

When too many questions are asked it draws unwanted scrutiny that leads to further restrictions.

The ATF has in the past changed thier classification a number of times on things like pistol braces because too many people have inundated them with questions about legalities.

 

[BigRed]

So, after looking at another thread, and looking at some products out there... How are those not buttstocks? I mean, really, does anyone ever wrap that strap around their forearm? Am I suppose to do that with a home defense [STRIKE]SBR[/STRIKE] pistol?

I'm just thinking, how are these not illegal without a stamp? I'm not a fan of Byzantine laws, so when I see these, but then someone says, "no, you see, we add this useless bit of velcro and then we pretend there's a loophole in the law..."

Good God. It is little wonder Liberty is so easily eroded.