Bill would repeal law requiring license to carry

[jamil]

This could potentially suck. I work in KY, which has reciprocity with IN. But KY doesn't issue non-resident CCDW licenses. It would mean I couldn't legally CC in KY because I wouldn't have my LTCH. Still I'd like to see constitutional carry in IN.

 

[brotherbill3]

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]HB 1144 Initial Bill Review[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]HB 1144 is 30 pages long – it has 25 sections – each of which affects an individual part of the Indiana Code (State Law). I read through the entire piece of legislation to make notes of what each section of the bill changes.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section # (IC ref to section modified) description of changes ...[/FONT]




[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Sections 1 (IC 5-2-1-9) & Section 2 (IC 5-2-8-2) of the bill, remove or edit text from one part of the current IC to which references other sections of the IC that are repealed or removed by this legislation. [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 3 (IC 10-13-3-40) repeals / removes the legal designation of where funds from LTCH applications are directed.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 4 (IC 11-9-2-4) repeals / removes issues related to pardons for LTCH's[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 5 (IC 11-13-1-3.5) removes LTCH language for code related to Probation Officers[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 6 (IC 14-16-1-23) removes LTCH language for carrying HANDGUN on “Off-Road” vehicles[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 7 (IC 21-17-5-6) & Section 8 (IC 21-39-4-7) removes automatic LTCH language for retired LEO's.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 9 (IC 31-30-1-4) deal w/ Juvenile Courts; removes carrying w/o LTCH language[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 10 (IC 35-33-1-1) removes reference to witness statement of carrying w/o LTCH as Probable Cause[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 11 (IC 35-47-1-8) removes definition of Proper Person[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 12 (IC 35-47-2-1) removes all the language of state law/code making carrying a handgun a crime (i.e. most of section IC 35-47-2-1); leaves parts about those convicted of certain crimes being prohibited.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 13 (IC 35-47-2-2) removes exceptions to (voided) LTCH requirements for LEO and similar “GOV” agents.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 14 (IC 35-47-2-3) removes / repeals application process for the LTCH from the IC[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 15 (IC 35-47-2-4) removes / repeals fees / type of LTCH definitions from the code[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 16 (IC 35-47-2-5) removes / repeals the section regarding suspension/revocation of LTCH [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 17 (IC 35-47-2-6) removes / repeals section on time limits for the state to process and and time line for renewal of LTCH[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 18 (IC 35-47-2-17) removes language of giving false info to obtain an LTCH [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 19 (IC 35-47-2-20) edits language regarding conditional pardons (prior to revision date) allowing for LTCH[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 20 (IC 35-47-2-22) repeals / removes language about using false LTCH to obtain a handgun being felony[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 21 (IC 35-47-2-24) repeals / removes language requiring LTCH as “positive defense” for crime of carrying a handgun.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 22 (IC 35-47-2.5-1) removed LTCH language from exceptions in section about handgun transfers / sales. **[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 23 (IC 35-47-11.1-4) removes reference to LTCH being positive defense for this section; replaces with language [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]if the person who possesses the handgun [strike]has been issued a valid license to carry the hand gun under IC 35-47-2.[/strike] is otherwise legally entitled to possess the handgun[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 24 (IC 35-47-14-6) removes language about court taking LTCH on competency hearing.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Section 25 (IC 35-50-2-13) removes additional reference to 35-47-2-1 for possession of a handgun[/FONT]




[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]AND that is ALL[/FONT]

 

[Lebowski]

I hope it gets repealed. Shouldn't need a license to exercise a right.

That sounds like an opinion. I hope you have your license to free speech on you, expressing your first amendment in the public and all. Sheesh!


While I do support this going through I'm also curious what that means for us Hoosiers who may want to travel out of state. If this passes what happens to all the states we can carry in with our LTCH? Do those with our LTCH still get the same benefits of going outside Indiana or what?

 

[jamil]

That sounds like an opinion. I hope you have your license to free speech on you, expressing your first amendment in the public and all. Sheesh!


While I do support this going through I'm also curious what that means for us Hoosiers who may want to travel out of state. If this passes what happens to all the states we can carry in with our LTCH? Do those with our LTCH still get the same benefits of going outside Indiana or what?

That's what I'm talking about. I work in KY and their reciprocity with my IN LTCH allows me to carry in their state. They don't issue licenses to non-residents and I might be wrong but I don't think they honor non-resident licenses/permits. So i'm not sure that getting some other state's license, like Utah or Florida, would allow me to carry there.

ironic how my state upholding a right takes that right from me in other states. I think they should add to the law that IN will continue to issue LTCH to people who need it for other state's reciprocity.

 

[Mgderf]

That's what I'm talking about. I work in KY and their reciprocity with my IN LTCH allows me to carry in their state. They don't issue licenses to non-residents and I might be wrong but I don't think they honor non-resident licenses/permits. So i'm not sure that getting some other state's license, like Utah or Florida, would allow me to carry there.

ironic how my state upholding a right takes that right from me in other states. I think they should add to the law that IN will continue to issue LTCH to people who need it for other state's reciprocity.

They recognize Indiana's LTCH, why would they not reocgnize other states licenses?

 

[ryknoll3]

They recognize Indiana's LTCH, why would they not reocgnize other states licenses?

There are a few states, Michigan being one that only recognizes RESIDENT permits. A non-resident Utah permit wouldn't do anything for you in those states.

 

[jamil]

They recognize Indiana's LTCH, why would they not reocgnize other states licenses?

Some states' reciprocity excludes non-resident licenses. I thought KY was one of them but it's been long enough since I've looked into it I've apparently mistakenly muddled KY into that mix.

I'll have to look at other states, but at least some other states that issue carry licenses to non-residents require you to be licensed in your state of residence. On Utah's Department of Public Safety website, it says that, among other things, non-residents must provide proof of a permit issued to you by your home state.

Arizona doesn't require carry permits but they still issue carry licenses. I think Indiana should do the same for reciprocity's sake.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Wouldn't this also be a bad thing, in a way? Wouldn't we lose a lot of reciprocity with other states if we no longer required a license?

Also, if this did happen and licenses were done away with... wouldn't it then be much easier for the next democrat in power to re-introduce licensing in Indiana... but omit lifetime options or training requirements?

 

[jamil]

Wouldn't this also be a bad thing, in a way? Wouldn't we lose a lot of reciprocity with other states if we no longer required a license?

Also, if this did happen and licenses were done away with... wouldn't it then be much easier for the next democrat in power to re-introduce licensing in Indiana... but omit lifetime options or training requirements?

Hmm. This is an interesting aspect. I wonder why no one has thought to comment on that possibility.

BTW, the bill should also make it a crime punishable by jail time to propose legislation that would re-introduce licensing in IN.

 

[chipbennett]

I support Constitutional carry, but my take on it is that the permit won't go away, just the lifetime time frame. It'll likely go back to 4 year renewal. THAT is something I am against. If I can't have Constitutional carry, lifetime permit is the next best thing.

The easiest way to answer your question is just to read the bill.

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/bills/house/1144

The bill removes from the IC all references to criminalizing the carry of a handgun, and removes from the IC all references to issuance/use of the LTCH.

Indirectly, it would strike the lifetime LTCH - but only because it strikes the LTCH, period.

 

[chipbennett]

Bill HB 1144 is already being discussed at length (including Reciprocity) here:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-good-gun-bills.html?highlight=good+gun+bills

 

[edporch]

I'm definitely FOR constitutional carry.

The ONLY downside I see from doing away with the License to Carry is when carrying in other states.
Will they still recognize reciprocity in as many states, being that no background check would be required to carry in Indiana?

 

[John Galt]

POLITELY let Public Policy Chair Representative Tom Dermody know of your desire for the gun bills to get a hearing at 800-382-9841 or h20@in.gov.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

All they really need to do is honor the 2nd amendment. Anybody, can have any arms, any where, nation wide. It is a God given right, not a government granted privilege.



So simple, yet so damn hard...

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I'm definitely FOR constitutional carry.

The ONLY downside I see from doing away with the License to Carry is when carrying in other states.
Will they still recognize reciprocity in as many states, being that no background check would be required to carry in Indiana?

While great in concept... it gets rid of a good thing as well. Need to weigh out the good and bad here... because it's possible there's more bad.

1. (Severely) reduced reciprocity
2. LTCH is literally gone.

#2 is important... because once we lose the LTCH... how often do experimental laws get reverted back to what they were before? Indiana isn't a hard-red state. It's volatile.

Imagine this "constitutional carry" getting revoked in the future. Where are we now? Is everyone now breaking the law? It's not like they can say "Oh, we're back to exactly where we were years ago with the LTCH"... no. Everyone re-apply for a license? Or what is it now? A permit? Maybe now it's a CCW, and no open-carry is allowed. Maybe now it costs more. That money you paid before for the LTCH? Doesn't count... we don't have an LTCH anymore.

Hell, this is easy. Now that we don't have an LTCH... I'll just revoke this constitutional carry bill and now guns are banned in Indiana!

 

[dusty88]

Constitutional carry is where we need to go. Hopefully the nonresident permit issues will be covered in the same bill, but constitutional carry is such an important concept that it should be strongly encouraged.

#2 is important... because once we lose the LTCH... how often do experimental laws get reverted back to what they were before? Indiana isn't a hard-red state. It's volatile.

To reintroduce and pass a license requirement, the proponents would need majorities in both houses and they would need the governors seat. They also would need some citizen outrage. It's unlikely that constitutional carry is going to bring them that outrage.

Imagine this "constitutional carry" getting revoked in the future. Where are we now? Is everyone now breaking the law? It's not like they can say "Oh, we're back to exactly where we were years ago with the LTCH"... no. Everyone re-apply for a license? Or what is it now? A permit? Maybe now it's a CCW, and no open-carry is allowed. Maybe now it costs more. That money you paid before for the LTCH? Doesn't count... we don't have an LTCH anymore.

Hell, this is easy. Now that we don't have an LTCH... I'll just revoke this constitutional carry bill and now guns are banned in Indiana!

slow down LOL
Even Illinois isn't getting away with that anymore
If our state becomes that tilted, the current law isn't going to help us either

 

[chipbennett]

Constitutional carry is where we need to go. Hopefully the nonresident permit issues will be covered in the same bill, but constitutional carry is such an important concept that it should be strongly encouraged.

Does constitutional carry within Indiana state lines outweigh the complete loss of the right to carry outside of Indiana state lines (except in the half-dozen other constitutional carry states)?

Please think that one through.

 

[dusty88]

Does constitutional carry within Indiana state lines outweigh the complete loss of the right to carry outside of Indiana state lines (except in the half-dozen other constitutional carry states)?

Please think that one through.

I don't have control of what other states do. We actually have some influence in our own state.

That isn't to say we can't push for a provision for allowing current (and future) licenses akin to what Arizona has. But I sure wouldn't kill "constitutional carry" .

 

[jamil]

I don't have control of what other states do. We actually have some influence in our own state.

That isn't to say we can't push for a provision for allowing current (and future) licenses akin to what Arizona has. But I sure wouldn't kill "constitutional carry" .

I want constitutional carry, but for this to go forward, it needs to include a provision for licensing similar to Arizona.

 

[chipbennett]

I don't have control of what other states do. We actually have some influence in our own state.

That isn't to say we can't push for a provision for allowing current (and future) licenses akin to what Arizona has. But I sure wouldn't kill "constitutional carry" .

So, for anyone who currently holds an LTCH (especially a lifetime LTCH): what does constitutional carry and the elimination of the LTCH gain?

For anyone who ever, in their entire life, has to cross outside of Indiana state lines: what does constitutional carry and the elimination of the LTCH lose?

Loss of reciprocity does not outweigh the gain of constitutional carry, at least, not for anyone who ever has reason or desire ever to be outside of Indiana.