RevoWood123
Master
Youll never convince a Kentuckian that other state makes bourbon, it's treason.
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Youll never convince a Kentuckian that other state makes bourbon, it's treason.
And yes you are wrong.
I pulled a few bottles from my collection, without even having to reach in to the 2nd row.
FEW Bourbon, distilled & bottled in Evanston, Illinois.
Starlight Indiana Straight Bourbon, distilled & bottled Borden, Indiana.
Hudson's Bourbon (I actually have 2 different types of Hudson's Bourbon), distilled & bottled Gardiner, NY
Kings County Distillery Straight Bourbon Whiskey, distilled & bottled in Brooklyn, NY
I have more. I've got some Garrison Bros from Texas, some A.D.Laws from Colorado, some Spring Mill Indiana Straight Bourbon Whiskey and several others I can think of off the top of my head.
The reason I know this is because I search out craft distillers who distill, age and bottle their own bourbons.
Post 1008 is a fine example of a bottle of whiskey, in this case George Dickel, showing the city and state that it claims to have been distilled.
Show me that with a label that claims to be bourbon, not from Kentuck, and I will acknowledge your admonishment. Otherwise calling B S.
I am not from Kentuck, but some of my in-laws are, plus several other friends there as well.
Show me that with a label that claims to be bourbon, not from Kentuck, and I will acknowledge your admonishment. Otherwise calling B S.
I am not from Kentuck, but some of my in-laws are, plus several other friends there as well.
Exactly.
In fact it shouldn't even have been a debate.
This has been discussed many times. There are many sources to prove that BOURBON does not have to come from Kentucky. MGP in Indiana makes a large % of the "NDP" bourbons on the market although micro and craft bourbon distillers are finally starting to release their own products in larger numbers. It was common for them to buy from MGP during their first couple years of operation as their own products began the slow aging process. Now that their own barrels have aged we are seeing a proliferation of small distillers releasing product to the market.
You realize that while Dickel does not claim to be bourbon it is still, according to the laws of this nation, a bourbon.
The exact same thing can be said about Jack Daniels.
Both claim to be Tennessee Whiskey. They claim their filter process makes them different. But the fact is that they qualify in every way as bourbon. The filter process does not mean they are not bourbon. They simply choose not to use the term bourbon on their label and instead use the term Tenseness Whiskey. But that is a MARKETING choice.
RevoWood123
Master
It has to be debated as it is important to recognize the heritage of the product. Such as Tequila is only supposed to be from the Tequila region of Mexico, or Champagne only from Champagne France, Parmesean cheese only being a product of Italy, or cheddar being a product of Wisconsin. It's no different. I am sure that the other guys make products as good as any of the KY distillers out there, but to a Kentuckian, it will never be bourbon.
Cheddar, like Bourbon, can be made anywhere according to the laws.
Its CheddarHeads that only come from Wisconsin.
People seem to want to debate existing law. The law is the law. Don't like the law? Fine, change the law so that it must come from Kentucky to be called bourbon. But until a brand new law is enacted the law currently says that bourbon can be made anywhere in the USA as long as it meets specific production and aging criteria.
This is very much becoming like the Anti-Gunner's argument about the meaning of the 2nd Amendment. The law is the law. Don't like it, change it. Until then it is what it is. Ditto with Bourbon
It's actually from Cheddar village, Somerset, England.
Ironically, I don't think anyone there makes cheddar cheese.*
Cheddar's actually pretty variable - NY, CA, WI - they all have their own concept of what true cheddar cheese is suppose to be.
* The only Cheddar cheese maker: http://www.cheddargorgecheeseco.co.uk/
RevoWood123
Master
I see that I am alone in my opinion, I will always defend the heritage of KY bourbon makers. I get that the law allows for bourbons to be distilled outside of the KY border, and I am sure that they are fine quality. We will disagree and that is fine. We will always be able to debate such matters over a nice glass of fine brown spirits and not have to agree. 
Thank you Rev, I agree with you 100%.
Brandon, good work on the research, not bashing you but the referenced sites ummm... maybe a bit on the shaky side, it is after all the inter webby thing, Bon Jor?? Seriously, good work, however, Baby Bourbon, what's that, maybe the same recipe but not really, or Jr. Bourbon, maybe the red headed step child of Bourbon??? The thing that I notice about the labels that I was able to read was there is a prefix, or descriptive noun, (need help here English majors), before the word bourbon. If care to look at your Makers Mark, Jim Beam, Evan Williams (taste damn near like Jack), Rebel Yell, Bulleit Bourbon, ect., they are labeled as Kentucky Straight Bourbon. Difference?? I dunno.
Law?? There is no "Law", that I am aware of. I can and will ask my friendly Excise officer the next time I see him.
Brandon, the middle link, "Is it bourbon.........." kind of explains it. Old school vs. x's or millennials. It seems some of the new companies (newby's?) want the use the recipe and be branded bourbon, regardless of location. You may notice the Dickel and Jack, (old school) reference in a previous post, yes they use a bourbon recipe, but brand it as whiskey.
So I am over it, call it what you will. But more importantly is the exchange of ideas here, I sincerely appreciate your input. I enjoy bourbon, Makers Mark is a fine example of sippin' whisky, but my latest trend has been towards Crown Royal Black mixed with ginger. However today we received our weekly order and I had a bottle of Crown Rye shipped in. It is 90 proof and has a bit of a bite when sipped, so I mixed it with a touch of sour apple schnapps, mmmmm... pretty tasty. But that's just me.
Bottom line: throw a shot of your favorite into a rocks glass or shooter and enjoy a toast to a good debate. I am sure it won't end here.
But I could be wrong.
I see that I am alone in my opinion, I will always defend the heritage of KY bourbon makers. I get that the law allows for bourbons to be distilled outside of the KY border, and I am sure that they are fine quality. We will disagree and that is fine. We will always be able to debate such matters over a nice glass of fine brown spirits and not have to agree.
I think the reality is that the best bourbon still comes from Kentucky. The experts and most drinkers seem to easily agree on that point.
The fact that you are UNAWARE of a law does not mean it does not exist.
But let me help you out:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title27-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title27-vol1-sec5-22.pdf
And the cliff notes version:
http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/bam/chapter4.pdf
I see that I am NOT alone in my opinion, I will always defend the heritage of KY bourbon makers. I get that the law allows for bourbons to be distilled outside of the KY border, and I am sure that they are fine quality. We will disagree and that is fine. We will always be able to debate such matters over a nice glass of fine brown spirits and not have to agree.
Fixed it fer ya.
Maybe its time to offer up some sort of definitions/glossary of terms:
BOURBON: By law, bourbon must be made from a grain mixture that's at least 51% corn. Bourbon is aged in new charred-white oak barrels, and it's distilled to no more than 80% alcohol by volume (ABV). When it's pumped into the barrels, it enters the casks at no more than 62.5% ABV. Finally, when it's bottled, it has to be at least 40% ABV.
STRAIGHT BOURBON: This category has additional legal requirements beyond those of regular bourbon. Straight Bourbon must be at least two years old. If it's older than two but younger than four years, it must carry an age statement, and that age statement must reflect the youngest bourbon in the bottle. KENTUCKY 'STRAIGHT' BOURBON is simply "Straight Bourbon" from Kentucky while "INDIANA 'STRAIGHT' BOURBON" is simply "Straight Bourbon" from Indiana, etc etc.
BOURBON BOTTLED IN BOND: 'Bottled In Bond' means, by government standards, it is a minimum of four years old and bottled at exactly 100 proof. It must also be distilled by one distiller, not a blend from multiple distillers. Further it must be produced in one distilling season (January to December of the same year). Per the Bottled In Bond Act of 1897.
SMALL BATCH BOURBON: Doesn't really mean much. In industry terms a small batch is typically a batch of about 150 barrels or less, which are blended together. A "Small Batch" can be blended together from 1 or multiple distillers. The term is often associated with a higher level of quality, but it doesn't specifically specify quality. The idea with Small Batch blends is to get them to taste the same from batch to batch.
SINGLE BARREL BOURBON: Single barrel is a batch of one barrel. Because it is bottled from one barrel each bottle is going to be a little bit different than the next, but "Single Barrels" that come from the same part of the rackhouse may taste very similar to each other.
BARREL PROOF BOURBON also called CASK STRENGTH BOURBON: The terms are interchangeable. Bourbon bottled at the same proof at which it comes out of the barrel. Barrel Proof bottles will vary in alcohol content, but generally they are a much higher proof than regular bourbons, which are typically bottled at roughly 80 to 94 Proof. Barrel Proof bourbons are usually in the 120 to 130 proof range.
WHEATED BOURBON: A type of bourbon that is made from a mashbill that contains wheat instead of rye grain. It still has no less than 51% corn in the mash and is often considered to be a sweeter style of bourbon, where traditional rye bourbons are characterized by their spicier tones. Common Wheated Bourbons or Wheaters include: Makers Mark, Larceny and Pappy Van Winkle.
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2 other tid-bits.
AGE STATEMENTS: If a bourbon has an age statement on the bottle the age listed is the YOUNGEST bourbon that is contained in the bottle. Yellowstone Bourbon is a blend of 7 YO Wheat Bourbon, 7 YO Rye Bourbon and 12 YO Rye Bourbon and therefore carries the age statement of "7 Years Old".
AGE: Bourbon is aged in newly charred white oak casks. The time spent in the cask is the length of time it is aged. Once the bourbon is removed from the cask the aging stops. Bourbon removed from the cask may be stored in sealed stainless steel vats before it is bottled but it is not aging while it is in the vat or in a bottle.
BOURBON: By law, bourbon must be made from a grain mixture that's at least 51% corn. Bourbon is aged in new charred-white oak barrels, and it's distilled to no more than 80% alcohol by volume (ABV). When it's pumped into the barrels, it enters the casks at no more than 62.5% ABV. Finally, when it's bottled, it has to be at least 40% ABV.
STRAIGHT BOURBON: This category has additional legal requirements beyond those of regular bourbon. Straight Bourbon must be at least two years old. If it's older than two but younger than four years, it must carry an age statement, and that age statement must reflect the youngest bourbon in the bottle. KENTUCKY 'STRAIGHT' BOURBON is simply "Straight Bourbon" from Kentucky while "INDIANA 'STRAIGHT' BOURBON" is simply "Straight Bourbon" from Indiana, etc etc.
BOURBON BOTTLED IN BOND: 'Bottled In Bond' means, by government standards, it is a minimum of four years old and bottled at exactly 100 proof. It must also be distilled by one distiller, not a blend from multiple distillers. Further it must be produced in one distilling season (January to December of the same year). Per the Bottled In Bond Act of 1897.
SMALL BATCH BOURBON: Doesn't really mean much. In industry terms a small batch is typically a batch of about 150 barrels or less, which are blended together. A "Small Batch" can be blended together from 1 or multiple distillers. The term is often associated with a higher level of quality, but it doesn't specifically specify quality. The idea with Small Batch blends is to get them to taste the same from batch to batch.
SINGLE BARREL BOURBON: Single barrel is a batch of one barrel. Because it is bottled from one barrel each bottle is going to be a little bit different than the next, but "Single Barrels" that come from the same part of the rackhouse may taste very similar to each other.
BARREL PROOF BOURBON also called CASK STRENGTH BOURBON: The terms are interchangeable. Bourbon bottled at the same proof at which it comes out of the barrel. Barrel Proof bottles will vary in alcohol content, but generally they are a much higher proof than regular bourbons, which are typically bottled at roughly 80 to 94 Proof. Barrel Proof bourbons are usually in the 120 to 130 proof range.
WHEATED BOURBON: A type of bourbon that is made from a mashbill that contains wheat instead of rye grain. It still has no less than 51% corn in the mash and is often considered to be a sweeter style of bourbon, where traditional rye bourbons are characterized by their spicier tones. Common Wheated Bourbons or Wheaters include: Makers Mark, Larceny and Pappy Van Winkle.
-----------------------------------------------
2 other tid-bits.
AGE STATEMENTS: If a bourbon has an age statement on the bottle the age listed is the YOUNGEST bourbon that is contained in the bottle. Yellowstone Bourbon is a blend of 7 YO Wheat Bourbon, 7 YO Rye Bourbon and 12 YO Rye Bourbon and therefore carries the age statement of "7 Years Old".
AGE: Bourbon is aged in newly charred white oak casks. The time spent in the cask is the length of time it is aged. Once the bourbon is removed from the cask the aging stops. Bourbon removed from the cask may be stored in sealed stainless steel vats before it is bottled but it is not aging while it is in the vat or in a bottle.
jblomenberg16
Grandmaster
Good stuff Melensdad! With all this talk about bourbon, I think I'll pour up a few fingers of a single barrel and get ready to watch the IU ballgame.
I gave up Bourbon and Cigars for Lent. So none of either for me until Easter. Now that doesn't mean I can't buy something interesting, it just means I have to wait to consume it.
jblomenberg16
Grandmaster
Kudos...that is very respectable!
What are you drinking? Who made it? In which state was it made? This list was updated a few days ago and provides a very comprehensive list of Bourbon and Rye Whiskeys made in the USA:
Sku's Recent Eats: The Complete List of American Whiskey Distilleries & Brands
Sku's Recent Eats: The Complete List of American Whiskey Distilleries & Brands
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