bad dinner tonight

[LawDog76]

I think this is where the threads usually start to make a turn for the crazy. No one mentioned any crimes being committed nor has the OP ever stated that anyone asked him to leave. He was asked to put the firearm in his vehicle, he refused and choose to leave. No one asked him to leave and no ever stated any crime had been committed.

Thats why I asked where the where was a crime committed that gave the Police the authority to interact BEFORE the manager spoke with the op. THERE WAS NONE. Well not unless you go back into the kitchen. Even though he was asked to put the firearm inside car, it's still telling the OP he needs to leave the building with the firearm.

 

[Booya]

Well I was at dinner at Cebolla's behind glenbrook mall in ft wayne. So I've been seated and already had my food. Was OC my pt 911 on right hip, anyways my son starts getting a headace and was filling sick. So i took him to the bathroom and couple of min's goes by and two city cops come walking in and ask if I'm carrying a gun. I say yes and they ask for my ltch and id and say someone called in about a guy with a gun. They say that the manager says it has to be put in the car. So i say no I will just leave if they don't want to respect rights then i won't eat there. So I go to the table and tell my wife and 3yo little girl lets go and brieff her on whats going on. As I'm trying to leave the cops and manager said what about my bill. I said I'm not paying for something I didn't eat. Cops said i was and I said i WASN'T and the manager seen this was going to be a seen so he said that I was fine to leave. So I did. But that was my bad dinner night. Maybe we should have a opencarry dinner there what do u guys think?

Thats why I asked where the where was a crime committed that gave the Police the authority to interact BEFORE the manager spoke with the op. THERE WAS NONE. Well not unless you go back into the kitchen. Even though he was asked to put the firearm inside car, it's still telling the OP he needs to leave the building with the firearm.

I'm pretty sure there doe not have to be a crime committed for the police to respond to a call. If the police receive a call of a suspicious person in the area, and you fit the description, I'm pretty sure they can interact with you at their leisure. I think your interpretation of "telling the OP he needs to leave the building with the firearm." to put it in his car is off base. Telling him to put it in his car is not asking him to leave the premises, nor does it insinuate that he is being asked to leave and not come back or be kicked out.

No one asked him to leave the restaurant. He choose to leave. No one ever committed any crime or accused anyone of having done so. Police received a call, they responded. Manager practiced his right to refuse service, OP made the choice. I don't agree with the manager, and I have OC'd there with no issue, maybe the rules changed, I don't know. The way I see this story, no one actually did anything wrong.

 

[kevman65]

LEO informed the OP the manager requested he take his sidearm out and leave it in vehicle, manager said nothing at this point to contradict LEO. At that point the manager changed the situation from when the OP was seated. Food was not served, manager changed the agreement for service, at that point you have the option to leave because agreement was changed.

If food had been served, different situation, but it hadn't. OP received no goods, no money due.

With the way it is described, I'd take my chances in small claims court. Can't be criminal court, no crime was committed. I believe the manager realized this too and that's why they raised no objection on top of not wanting a scene in the restaurant.

 

[Oliver]

Thanks for letting others where not to go.

 

[MrsGungho]

Well I was at dinner at Cebolla's behind glenbrook mall in ft wayne. So I've been seated and already had my food. Was OC my pt 911 on right hip, anyways my son starts getting a headace and was filling sick. So i took him to the bathroom and couple of min's goes by and two city cops come walking in and ask if I'm carrying a gun. I say yes and they ask for my ltch and id and say someone called in about a guy with a gun. They say that the manager says it has to be put in the car. So i say no I will just leave if they don't want to respect rights then i won't eat there. So I go to the table and tell my wife and 3yo little girl lets go and brieff her on whats going on. As I'm trying to leave the cops and manager said what about my bill. I said I'm not paying for something I didn't eat. Cops said i was and I said i WASN'T and the manager seen this was going to be a seen so he said that I was fine to leave. So I did. But that was my bad dinner night. Maybe we should have a opencarry dinner there what do u guys think?

I think everyone needs a little reading comprehension lessons. He stated in his first post he had his food yet everyone says he was never served.

I still would have left without paying but it needs to be pointed out, he had been served and it may change how we are looking at this.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Ok, here is a question that I have thought of for a while. If you are asked to take your firearm to your car, can you refuse and say that you are not willing to leave your firearm unattended? They have not asked you to leave yet, so you are not trespassing.

When they then refuse to serve you and ask you to leave, then THEY are the ones breaking the "contract". It does not seem that you should be liable to pay if they are the ones asking you to leave the premises.

Just wondering...

 

[kevman65]

Yes, I missed that. No it doesn't change my opinion, the manager changed the agreement even if he didn't tell the LEO's to say it. He didn't contradict them and the OP was OCing from the get go and nothing was said until police were involved.

If you change the rules for service after allowing entry, the other party has the right to decline the change and is free to walk away. Manager has the right to refuse service, OP has the right to refuse the request and leave the premises. If OP had stayed, he could of been cited for trespass if the manager wanted to push the situation. OP declined to be unarmed and declined to be cited for trespass.

 

[grimor]

guess i missed that, he got the food, ya gotta pay. sorry bout that, get a doggie bag

 

[.40caltrucker]

Good point Booya! Devil's in the details. Had he actually partaken of the food and refused to pay=theft of services. That is one thing I've never understood about IN, that I thought TX did quite well. If a business chooses to refuse service/entry to a person CC/OCing, they simply post a 30.06 sign, that way there's no confusion about whether they're CC/OC friendly.

Texas doesn't allow OC, only CC.

IMO they should have to post a sign. It would give us a chance to decide if we want to shop/eat there before we ever enter the building. If I have to give up constitution rights to eat at a certain restaurant I'll eat elsewhere.

OP was right to not pay, I usually wait 15-20 min on food which gave manager that much time to inform OP of his policy. I say we find out the phone number of this store and spend all next week calling the manager and letting him know we wont eat there unless he changes his policy. *67 will block your number.

 

[LPMan59]

i am glad signs don't carry the weight of law. ymmv

 

[LawDog76]

I'm pretty sure there doe not have to be a crime committed for the police to respond to a call. If the police receive a call of a suspicious person in the area, and you fit the description, I'm pretty sure they can interact with you at their leisure. I think your interpretation of "telling the OP he needs to leave the building with the firearm." to put it in his car is off base. Telling him to put it in his car is not asking him to leave the premises, nor does it insinuate that he is being asked to leave and not come back or be kicked out.

No one asked him to leave the restaurant. He choose to leave. No one ever committed any crime or accused anyone of having done so. Police received a call, they responded. Manager practiced his right to refuse service, OP made the choice. I don't agree with the manager, and I have OC'd there with no issue, maybe the rules changed, I don't know. The way I see this story, no one actually did anything wrong.

Police CAN NOT enforce company policy. That's exactly what they were doing here. They can be called to the business to "keep the peace" while the manager ask you to leave or take your gun out which happened here. If you refuse to comply, then they step in and interact which will usually end with you being charged with criminal trespass. That's basically what I was pointing out in the I.C. by post that highlight/bold section. To me this is just another example of FWPD making up their own rules and doing what they want. At least Ken Fries keeps his men and women in check.

 

[Pocketman]

... At least Ken Fries keeps his men and women in check.

Farm cops have different clientele.

 

[LawDog76]

Farm cops have different clientele.

They do their fair share of work inside city limits.

 

[JDonhardt]

Well I was at dinner at Cebolla's behind glenbrook mall in ft wayne. So I've been seated and already had my food. Was OC my pt 911 on right hip, anyways my son starts getting a headace and was filling sick. So i took him to the bathroom and couple of min's goes by and two city cops come walking in and ask if I'm carrying a gun. I say yes and they ask for my ltch and id and say someone called in about a guy with a gun. They say that the manager says it has to be put in the car. So i say no I will just leave if they don't want to respect rights then i won't eat there. So I go to the table and tell my wife and 3yo little girl lets go and brieff her on whats going on. As I'm trying to leave the cops and manager said what about my bill. I said I'm not paying for something I didn't eat. Cops said i was and I said i WASN'T and the manager seen this was going to be a seen so he said that I was fine to leave. So I did. But that was my bad dinner night. Maybe we should have a opencarry dinner there what do u guys think?

It isnt that they dont respect the rights of others, its that they are exercising their own rights. Causing a scene in public sounds like the action of a man who doesnt respect the rights of others, if you ask me.

 

[Booya]

Police CAN NOT enforce company policy. That's exactly what they were doing here. They can be called to the business to "keep the peace" while the manager ask you to leave or take your gun out which happened here. If you refuse to comply, then they step in and interact which will usually end with you being charged with criminal trespass. That's basically what I was pointing out in the I.C. by post that highlight/bold section. To me this is just another example of FWPD making up their own rules and doing what they want. At least Ken Fries keeps his men and women in check.

I didn't get anywhere that the police did anything to enforce anything, they merely relayed a message from a guy that was probably standing right next to them. The police just told him that per mgmt you have to leave your firearm in your vehicle, I didn't read that they told him to leave or attempt to enforce anything.

I'm seeing a lot of digging from multiple posters here to attempt to bash police that haven't done anything wrong. I'm no cop and I know there are PLENTY out there that make bad mistakes and really bad judgement calls, I just don't see it here. I think some INGO members are on a fishing expedition this time...Good luck, mgmt said take it outside, OP left, end of story.

 

[Love the 1911]

I didn't get anywhere that the police did anything to enforce anything, they merely relayed a message from a guy that was probably standing right next to them. The police just told him that per mgmt you have to leave your firearm in your vehicle, I didn't read that they told him to leave or attempt to enforce anything.

I'm seeing a lot of digging from multiple posters here to attempt to bash police that haven't done anything wrong. I'm no cop and I know there are PLENTY out there that make bad mistakes and really bad judgement calls, I just don't see it here. I think some INGO members are on a fishing expedition this time...Good luck, mgmt said take it outside, OP left, end of story.

In Hendricks County, there was a trespass warning issued and later an arrest made on the same individual. The Judge in the case stated that the trespass warning was not valid because it was delivered by law enforcement, not someone with a vested interest in the property. I've issued trespass warnings before out of laziness because it's been the easier thing to do than call a frightened business owner to speak to someone that they don't want around. This is a common practice that law enforcement does but it's not out of trying to step on someone's rights, it's just trying to get the job done as efficiently as possible for some of the stupid crap that we probably shouldn't have been called for in the first place.

That being said, I feel like LE did a good job with this. It doesn't appear that they took possession of OP's gun, just checked his LTCH and tried to resolve the situation before leaving. As far as the bill goes, I would inform the business owner that by enforcing his policy, and the OP refusing to pay, they could go to civil court. I will attempt to learn about this situation for future reference so I can explain the possible results of asking an individual to leave before the bill has been paid.

 

[schafe]

Ha! This sounds like a case of bad restaurant management. Here is my take: In an effort to appease a complaining patron, the manager probably wound up loosing two customers permanantly(I doubt the complaining customer was very happy about the fuss..probably didn't want to pay,either), and the revenue from at least one meal, if not two.It looks as though, from this thread, that this restaurant was carry friendly....untill someone complained!!

 

[firecop9774]

CC - the whole mess could have been avoided, and the family could have enjoyed a meal together. CC - future problems solved. CC - has nothing to do with denial of 2A rights - simply a common sense attempt to avoid potential problems and / or conflicts. My two cents worth - standing by for negative reps...........

 

[Britton]

I eat there for business lunches from time to time, but no more.

 

[wtfd661]

I didn't get anywhere that the police did anything to enforce anything, they merely relayed a message from a guy that was probably standing right next to them. The police just told him that per mgmt you have to leave your firearm in your vehicle, I didn't read that they told him to leave or attempt to enforce anything.

I'm seeing a lot of digging from multiple posters here to attempt to bash police that haven't done anything wrong. I'm no cop and I know there are PLENTY out there that make bad mistakes and really bad judgement calls, I just don't see it here. I think some INGO members are on a fishing expedition this time...Good luck, mgmt said take it outside, OP left, end of story.

This^^.

The OP related his story about a property owners decision, the OP correctly decided he would spend his money else where, the management did not demand payment, the Police responded to a call to investigate, which they did and conveyed the property owners wish. No harm no foul on anyones part.

And just for full disclosure, I love their Steak Fajita Quesadilla