Atterbury June 15-16: Free Ammo & Sample Rifles Sponsored by Wolf, IWI, Mach 1

[Mudcat]

Rayne I have a .223 bolt action that takes AR magazines even the 30 rounders if you so desire. It is of course sorted out but you cannot have the data book with it. I know you like myself like the bolt action rifles. If we can work out the logistics it is yours if you want it. I think my cousin will be going up he could transport it.

 

[ol' Huff]

She could also speak up for one of the Veprs or Tavors. I don't think a Tavor can be used with a sling very well but the Veprs are Rifleman friendly.

 

[Brown]

Mach 1 Aresenal intends to bring 4 Vepr rifles. 2 in .308 and 2 in 7.62X54R. Each pair will have a bone stock rifle and a modified version with rails, adjustable stocks,pistol grips,etc.

 

[SmileDocHill]

She could also speak up for one of the Veprs or Tavors. I don't think a Tavor can be used with a sling very well but the Veprs are Rifleman friendly.

So these rifles are not just demo's to look at and maybe fire a couple of times? We could maybe even do a "lap" (AQT) with them?

 

[techres]

SmileDocHill, we would not have allowed them if there would be no shooting of them!

Them's rifles for the firing and shooting and all...

Since there are not enough for everyone, we will have to be fair in their distribution and use. But, yeah, they are along for the ride in the grass, dirt and hot steel fun.

 

[techres]

Oh, and there is nothing funnier than trying to tell an Israeli how his rifle should be used (sling use, manual of arms, etc). He was..... *adamant* about how it ought be used and in the end we came around to understanding his points.

It was kinda a funny cross cultural moment though!

 

[ol' Huff]

I wouldn't say we came around. I would say that I realized that the guy was never going to listen to anything I had to say about the application of the rifle at 500 yards and decided not to continue my conversation with him on the topic.

He was taught something. He was taught that THAT way is the way it should be done. He probably isn't the first or last person I have encountered with that mindset. He did kinda have weird eyebrows.

 

[Pale Rider]

I wouldn't say we came around. I would say that I realized that the guy was never going to listen to anything I had to say about the application of the rifle at 500 yards and decided not to continue my conversation with him on the topic.

He was taught something. He was taught that THAT way is the way it should be done. He probably isn't the first or last person I have encountered with that mindset. He did kinda have weird eyebrows.

I'm curious about what's taught etc. If I bring a rifle that's not free floated am I going to be told to shoot with a wrapped sling instead on mag on the ground? Any insight of courses of fire, timed events etc? I'm very new to the appleseed thing.

 

[techres]

I'm curious about what's taught etc. If I bring a rifle that's not free floated am I going to be told to shoot with a wrapped sling instead on mag on the ground? Any insight of courses of fire, timed events etc? I'm very new to the appleseed thing.

Free float does not matter, but sling does.
No monopodding on magazine allowed.

4 Stages to the course of fire:
Standing 10 rounds in 2 minutes at 100 yards.
Sitting 10 rounds in 55 seconds at 200 yards (includes a transition from standing and a mag swap)
Prone 10 rounds in 65 seconds at 300 yards (includes a transition from standing and a mag swap)
Prone 10 rounds in 5 minutes at 400 yards (counts double on test)

That's it.

 

[Pale Rider]

Free float does not matter, but sling does.
No monopodding on magazine allowed.

4 Stages to the course of fire:
Standing 10 rounds in 2 minutes at 100 yards.
Sitting 10 rounds in 55 seconds at 200 yards (includes a transition from standing and a mag swap)
Prone 10 rounds in 65 seconds at 300 yards (includes a transition from standing and a mag swap)
Prone 10 rounds in 5 minutes at 400 yards (counts double on test)

That's it.

Sounds like some tough courses of fire. Going to do my best to attend and soak up everything I can.

I'm still curious on the sling though, a sling on a non fre floated AR will torque the barrel. And no matter how consistant we try to be we will never be able to put the same amout of torque on the sling everytime, which will eventually affect accuracy. So will resting the upper of the AR on a hand or other support. Right?

 

[ol' Huff]

yes, torquing the barrel will affect shot placement. Think about this, though, how much torque does it take to change your shot by 1 moa? how much torque does your sling tension produce? I have tried tightening my sling until it was nearly unbearable and have not been able to affect a shot by more than 1.5 moa and I am not entirely certain it was the sling tension doing it.

If you torque a shot 1 MOA at 500 you have moved that shot placement a little over 5 inches. If you are holding dead red on the bad guy's v-ring, you still dropped him.

The critical element is consistency. If you maintain similar sling tension the shot will be torqued the same each time, which will produce a consistent group anyway. Experience has shown that the greater affect on shot placement caused by the sling is not torquing from excess tension but discomfort to the shooter caused by an overly tight sling, or no sling support at all causing a loose position.

In a perfect world you collect data on a multitude of situations and your rifle is booked to have data for sling, no sling, bi-pod, sandbag, rain, cold, etc., but in a field shooting situation, inside the Rifleman's Quarter-Mile, just grab your boomstick, lay down, and shoot em.


techres - We will be doing Hits Count method so stage 4 won't double.

 

[SSGSAD]

Can you tell us how many slots are left ?????

 

[ol' Huff]

It isn't that they are tough courses (though they sure ain't easy), but they are a return of sorts to the kind of fundamentals we used to drive into a Rifleman from day 1. As technology has grown we have gotten away from it to some extent, and getting back can seem daunting, but its worth it.

On April 19th, 1775 there is a reality we often forget. The British Regulars were the best marksman any regular army had trained to that point. Unfortunately for them, they weren't as good as some American farmers and shopkeepers. (Sorry Major Pitcairn, we're gonna go ahead and keep those pistols. If you want them back, suck it.)

When the boys were thrown against Fortress Europe on D-Day, they had been given the finest rifle and the best marksmanship training the world had ever seen. The end result, Americans an their beautiful rifle were feared for their marksmanship.

When the NVA took a poke at Khe Sahn hoping for another Dien Ben Phu, aimed, accurate rifle fire and the U.S. Marines said not today.

When times were tough, and your grandfather's belly rumbled, your great grandfather put food on the table with aimed, accurate rifle fire.

Man I can't wait for this shoot. The clatter of musketry is music to the ears of Lady Liberty.

 

[ol' Huff]

10ish slots. On June 3rd I am going to open up the remaining slots to out of state instructors and on June 7th all appropriate paperwork has to be turned in to CAJMTC.

Hurry your tail up! Bring the wife!

Take only what you need and nothing you won't use.

 

[Pale Rider]

10ish slots. On June 3rd I am going to open up the remaining slots to out of state instructors and on June 7th all appropriate paperwork has to be turned in to CAJMTC.

Hurry your tail up! Bring the wife!

Take only what you need and nothing you won't use.

Just got my confirmation email. I'll be there!

 

[boljr01]

Confirmed...

I'll be there +1.

Now just need to determine what to shoot.

 

[yellowhousejake]

I'll be there +1.

Now just need to determine what to shoot.

Read this, I wrote it after many events at Atterbury and watching the mistakes of the students (and some instructors).

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...sored_by_wolf_iwi_mach_1_a-4.html#post4196043

Atterbury is for the rifle you grab when it matters, not the rifle you want your buddies to see you shoot. This dance is for Maryann so leave Ginger at home, she can't run on the beach in heels no how.

YHJ

 

[yellowhousejake]

Sounds like some tough courses of fire. Going to do my best to attend and soak up everything I can.

I'm still curious on the sling though, a sling on a non fre floated AR will torque the barrel. And no matter how consistant we try to be we will never be able to put the same amout of torque on the sling everytime, which will eventually affect accuracy. So will resting the upper of the AR on a hand or other support. Right?

I've seen scores with stock rifles and no free floated forearms that made the grade. I shot with a borrowed stock service rifle and had no issues with the sling. Sling torque on the handguard is a problem when 1/2" at 500 yards is the difference between first place and no place.

Since becoming an instructor I have learned many lessons shooting and instructing at Atterbury.

- Everything on the internet is not true.
- A cheap scope that tracks beats a expensive one that doesn't, every time.
- Steel cased ammo is just fine for everything but reloading (I'll be corrected on that I'm sure).
- Freefloated handguards have great profit potential, but really don't matter to anyone but target shooters.
- Even new out of the box well respected rifle brands can shear an action bolt now and then.
- God made blue locktite for rifles.
- Consistency is King.
- AR-10s are in fact accurate.
- 4X is all you really need out to 500 yards.
- The single most important thing you must bring to a rifle range is a pen and something to write on.
- Always carry toilet paper in your truck.

The list will grow after this event, I am certain of that.

YHJ

-

 

[The Bubba Effect]

This dance is for Maryann so leave Ginger at home, she can't run on the beach in heels no how.

YHJ

Is Huff posting from YHJ's account?

 

[ol' Huff]

Sound just like me.



- Everything on the internet is not true. Fact
- A cheap scope that tracks beats a expensive one that doesn't, every time. FACT
- Steel cased ammo is just fine for everything but reloading (I'll be corrected on that I'm sure). Fact
- Freefloated handguards have great profit potential, but really don't matter to anyone but target shooters. Fact
- Even new out of the box well respected rifle brands can shear an action bolt now and then. That was a fun one wasn't it?
- God made blue locktite for rifles. The Big Rifleman loves him some blue Loctite.
- Consistency is King. Fact
- AR-10s are in fact accurate. 500 yard evidence from the OP is right here.

- 4X is all you really need out to 500 yards. Fact
- The single most important thing you must bring to a rifle range is a pen and something to write on. Fact
- Always carry toilet paper in your truck. Plop