Anyone Have Appleseed Advice?

[Kirk Freeman]

If you were a Saturday only, I worry you left only at the height of frustration.

Yes, Saturday only which I think is good. One, it is a 5.5 hour drive from Knoxville (we went down Friday to see friends and do touristy stuff--a learning vacation). Two, I need a "mulligan" on Appleseed.

Let me commend you on having the spirit of endurance that, unlike all else, cannot be taught, it just has to exist and you have it!

Well, let's say I was close, real close to giving up in frustration. However, I think having a range buddy saved me. As I did not want to let my range buddy down.

I did not cover myself in glory. I know I can shoot better than I did but lacking confidence in your rifle does not help.

As the Detroit Lions say, wait till next season!!!

 

[techres]

Yes, Saturday only which I think is good. One, it is a 5.5 hour drive from Knoxville (we went down Friday to see friends and do touristy stuff--a learning vacation). Two, I need a "mulligan" on Appleseed.

Well, let's say I was close, real close to giving up in frustration. However, I think having a range buddy saved me. As I did not want to let my range buddy down.

I did not cover myself in glory. I know I can shoot better than I did but lacking confidence in your rifle does not help.

As the Detroit Lions say, wait till next season!!!

Don't sweat it, look forward to the future and don't dwell on the past!

As far as glory, that is not a word I think of when I remember my showing at Carrolton, KY in 2006. I think more of, "survived" but mostly because of where I came from and what I expected of myself. I made my own day far harder than it needed to be, but I learned permanent lessons from that. And, frankly, the shooting was fun, but is was the history and campfire time that hooked me.

In any event, let's get you back soon and get you back on that horse and with a rifle you can trust (hopefully your own!).

 

[Bill of Rights]

Kirk,

I am very pleased to see your AAR here. When I first started reading, I was concerned that you had not had a good time, had not learned anything, and in general were turned off to the whole thing. I could not be happier to be wrong about something.

As Techres told you, it is seldom that it all "clicks" for someone their first time out. Ours is not an easy course of fire; some even wish we shot at full distance, claiming it is easier to do so. Still, you have the knowledge of what skills to practice and you have time now to do that practice. I also would like to see you at an Appleseed shoot.. Perhaps Riley, the last weekend of this month, right after Thanksgiving?

In the meantime, practice what you learned, stretch to make getting on the ground easier, and whether it is this month or next year, I look forward to meeting you there.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[lovemywoods]

So sorry to hear of your experience at Appleseed. Glad you stuck it out and had the inner disposition to find the good in the situation.

I'm concerned to hear that a proper zero wasn't found for you and your rifle. At my first Appleseed, the instructors were quite intentional about making sure every student was properly zeroed. Without that, you really are handicapped.

I give high marks to the instructors I had a Riley in July. I suggest you try one of the Indiana Appleseeds next!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm concerned to hear that a proper zero wasn't found for you and your rifle

This is my greatest criticism of Appleseed. It was unlike any other rifle or carbine class that I've had.

What point can there be teaching riflery to inidividuals who do not know where their rifle is shooting?

I had to beg to even get a rough zero. I was not a happy camper.

I was concerned that you had not had a good time, had not learned anything, and in general were turned off to the whole thing

I did not have a good time. It was miserable, but no one promised me a rose garden.

My learning was hampered by my frustration. However, I did learn what I need to do.

Not turned off at all. Even if we crash and burn, we still learn stuff.

I crashed and burned because of a mechanical/equipment problem. I need to address it so next time I can have a better time.

 

[techres]

This is my greatest criticism of Appleseed. It was unlike any other rifle or carbine class that I've had.

What point can there be teaching riflery to inidividuals who do not know where their rifle is shooting?

I had to beg to even get a rough zero. I was not a happy camper.

Every Appleseed I have been at or run, students zero the rifles. Zeroing is what we do after IMC and is roughly the sixth or seventh step on Saturday. I will talk to the SB at the event that you to and speak to him/her and see if I can understand your experience better.

As for the next event, what are you doing at the end of the month? Riley has spots and I can make room for you special. PM me if you are available.

 

[techres]

Every Appleseed I have been at or run, students zero the rifles. Zeroing is what we do after IMC and is roughly the sixth or seventh step on Saturday.

One note, when you say Zero, do you mean spot each shot and walk it in? If so, then you are right, we do not do that. IMC uses groupings, measurements, and then a single adjustment of your sights to put you on. That is what should have been your experience.

In any event, let me know about your availability and we can take the rest to PM.

 

[rvb]

We started shooting immediately and without zeroing and without any instruction as to slinging rifle positioning, etc. I was flabbergasted, but did the drill.

What point can there be teaching riflery to inidividuals who do not know where their rifle is shooting?

From the perspective of a teacher who knows nothing about the skillset of the students (other than that the class will be diverse; some students will be very capable and some will have no skill base at all), the methodology of the class is fine, imo. Yes, they start off with no instruction. This gives both you and the instructor some idea of the shooting skills that your brought with you to the class. (It also keeps the instructor from having to hear, "well, if I was allowed to do it MY way...").

I also understand them not wanting people to mess with their zeros. The goal is to build the platform that gets consistency. Once that is achieved, the zero can be adjusted. Until that foundation of fundamentals is built, most people will just spend their day chasing a zero. I've seen this before instructing pistols when people swore they needed to adjust their sights or point of aim and I wouldn't let them... and before long they were cutting out x's.

You say you never could get your rifle zero'd? How were your groups? consistant size and impacting in roughly the same place relative to the target? Were the shots going where you were calling them? If not check the gun! What type of rifle? Maybe people could point you to things to check?

How many minutes (clicks, not time) to get it out of the dirt and roughly zero'd?

-rvb

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How many minutes (clicks, not time) to get it out of the dirt and roughly zero'd?

Groups were quarter sized. I finally settled on 29 clicks from the bottom, but that was high.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Typically, the first target of the day is shot without any sighting, adjustment, or instruction. We want to see "where you are" before we start changing anything. That said, we do want to get you to a point in the day and then adjust, once your position and mechanics are solid. It can certainly be frustrating, especially when you set a high standard for yourself. It took me an Appleseed and several minis and LOTS of practice putting it all together over the course of about six months before I finally shot the score for the first time in front of an instructor.

I have no doubt that you will get where you want to be.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Just got off the phone with Vortex. Apparently on the model of flash suppressor that I ordered there are different heights of front sights.

I have the wrong height of flash suppressor on the rifle!!!

A new front sight is being FedExed from Arizona as we speak.

*&^%$&*^%#@ guns!

 

[techres]

Just got off the phone with Vortex. Apparently on the model of flash suppressor that I ordered there are different heights of front sights.

I have the wrong height of flash suppressor on the rifle!!!

A new front sight is being FedExed from Arizona as we speak.

*&^%$&*^%#@ guns!

Sweet! Always cool to suss out a problem. I would have loved to see it at Riley this month, but hope to see it next spring in person when time allows in your schedule. See you then!

 

[lovemywoods]

Sweet! Always cool to suss out a problem.

Techres' Word of the Day:

Today's word is 'suss'!

Main Entry: suss
Pronunciation: \ˈsəs\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: by shortening & alteration from suspect
Date: 1966
1 chiefly British : figure out —usually used with out
2 chiefly British : to inspect or investigate so as to gain more knowledge —usually used with out

That was a new one on me. Thanks for expanding my lexicon!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Well, some of us already knew what suss meant.

I think someone took an offhand snap shot at someone's ethnic origins.

See what you have done, rhino!!!

 

[Bill of Rights]

Well, some of us already knew what suss meant.

I think someone took an offhand snap shot at someone's ethnic origins.

See what you have done, rhino!!!

Ban him! Oh... oops. Wrong thread. Disregard please, kthxbai.

 

[lovemywoods]

I think someone took an offhand snap shot at someone's ethnic origins.

Kirk,

I believe I may have inadvertently offended you! Please accept my apologies and this picture of Milla Jovovich. I hope this makes up for my indiscretion and for my blatant ignorance of the Queen’s English!

 

[techres]

Techres' Word of the Day:

Today's word is 'suss'!

My first networking job was with a british software engineer and he used that expression at least 6 times a day. It is now a permanent part of my lexicon and just sounds far cooler than "troubleshoot"...

 

[Wabatuckian]

Hey guys,

Got my SKS going again, and also got a really skinny front sight.

Looking forward to spring!

Was the other gunstore here in Wabash ever contacted? Or are you waiting to do that?

Josh <><

 

[rhino]

See what you have done, rhino!!!

I'm a helper.

 

[squisher]

An appleseed sounds like a great thing, problem for me is incorrect equipment.

The closest thing I have is an older yugo K98 clone or the Mosin M44, neither with any optics.

Though I would be willing to try with either of those, as the last time I had the M44 out I was able to hit a 8.5x11 paper 6/9 at 100 yds off a bench. (old milsurp ammo).

I would love to learn better technique.