Anybody else tire of seeing a good thread get ruined by the OC/CC debate?

[JettaKnight]

My pants tend to decide how I carry. Some pants have are too tight for my IWB holsters so I go for the the leather OWB.

Personally, I like being flexible in my 2A stance enough to cover it up instead of posting a message like, "Is Grizzlebies on 96th OC friendly - takin' the wife and kids out for dinner".

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I know, and I don't care what anyone thinks either. Just trying to come to some kind of an answer to stop all the bickering. The way we carry, as long as it is within the parameters of the law, is our business.

Re-education... One at a time.

 

[the1kidd03]

The debate simply sends mixed signals to the "anti" crowd. It demonstrates "in their mind" that "even other gun owners don't think they should have the right to carry."

If you prefer one over the other, FINE. But let everyone else make their choice as well and stop bashing them for their choice. Live and let live. Demonstrating that difference in opinion to everyone else is simply arming the "anti" crowd further.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

My pants tend to decide how I carry. Some pants have are too tight for my IWB holsters so I go for the the leather OWB.

Personally, I like being flexible in my 2A stance enough to cover it up instead of posting a message like, "Is Grizzlebies on 96th OC friendly - takin' the wife and kids out for dinner".

I quit worrying about it. I do a quick scan for signage on my way in or perhaps a check of a website for anti 2A policies. Then I just carry however I feel like that day. Typically OC if I'm not at work.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

The debate simply sends mixed signals to the "anti" crowd. It demonstrates "in their mind" that "even other gun owners don't think they should have the right to carry."

If you prefer one over the other, FINE. But let everyone else make their choice as well and stop bashing them for their choice. Live and let live.

Any passionate stance is going to have multiple sides and usually one or more can't seem to get along. Face it, it is part of life until we normalize OC to the point where it is common enough. The sad part is it really is only other gun owners or misinformed authorities that ever give OCers problems.

 

[the1kidd03]

Any passionate stance is going to have multiple sides and usually one or more can't seem to get along. Face it, it is part of life until we normalize OC to the point where it is common enough. The sad part is it really is only other gun owners or misinformed authorities that ever give OCers problems.

I know, but if we don't educate the "less informed CCers" that it is their choice and about the potential damage they do by bashing it then they will never stop and it could lead to further assaults on ALL of our rights. I don't care HOW someone carries, so long as they carry. Even then, I recognize there are those who know they cannot morally take a man's life and I respect that and try to further educate them in other forms of self-defense.

 

[blamecharles]

Even then, I recognize there are those who know they cannot morally take a man's life and I respect that and try to further educate them in other forms of self-defense.

My girlfriend has a friend that confuses me to no end. She loves to shoot and wants to go with us to the range whenever we go but hates the thought of a gun in her house. She has said that she would rather be raped, murdered or tortured than have to live with the thought of defending herself.
My GF was yelling at her( i was rather proud of her, as she didn't care for guns either at one point) that she needs to change that way of thinking. How do you change that kind of thinking? I just told my GF to give it up that her friend wasnt going to change.

 

[KG1]

My girlfriend has a friend that confuses me to no end. She loves to shoot and wants to go with us to the range whenever we go but hates the thought of a gun in her house. She has said that she would rather be raped, murdered or tortured than have to live with the thought of defending herself.
My GF was yelling at her( i was rather proud of her, as she didn't care for guns either at one point) that she needs to change that way of thinking. How do you change that kind of thinking? I just told my GF to give it up that her friend wasnt going to change.

Wow. That's pretty heavy. I don't know how to change a persons thought process like that.

I would maybe say to them If that is your choice for how you would suffer your own demise that is one thing but would you feel the same if you were to witness your child or another loved one going through that same fate?

 

[the1kidd03]

My girlfriend has a friend that confuses me to no end. She loves to shoot and wants to go with us to the range whenever we go but hates the thought of a gun in her house. She has said that she would rather be raped, murdered or tortured than have to live with the thought of defending herself.
My GF was yelling at her( i was rather proud of her, as she didn't care for guns either at one point) that she needs to change that way of thinking. How do you change that kind of thinking? I just told my GF to give it up that her friend wasnt going to change.

Well, first you have to find out and understand WHY they feel that way. Some people simply have a personal moral ground that they don't feel it is their right to make a choice which involves taking another's life. If this is the case, you're simply not going to change their mind and I encourage you NOT to try. If you try too hard then that makes you no better than the "anti" crowd trying to force their beliefs on us. The difficult part is figuring out whether this is the basis for their feelings or some other reasons. Not everyone is very well spoken and able or willing to effectively communicate such deep rooted beliefs.

 

[the1kidd03]

Wow. That's pretty heavy. I don't know how to change a persons thought process like that.

I would maybe say to them If that is your choice for how you would suffer your own demise that is one thing but would you feel the same if you were to witness your child or another loved one going through that same fate?

This is a good start to determining where that mindset comes from. Depending on their response you can determine if it is simply their moral beliefs or some possible other reasons. If it is truly their morals which would not allow them to use a gun in defense, then they will not be willing to take a man's life regardless of the circumstances. From there, you will have to "troubleshoot" through other means of determining the "root cause" of their beliefs to figure out a way to get them to think about it realistically.

 

[NDguido]

Well, first you have to find out and understand WHY they feel that way. Some people simply have a personal moral ground that they don't feel it is their right to make a choice which involves taking another's life. If this is the case, you're simply not going to change their mind and I encourage you NOT to try. If you try too hard then that makes you no better than the "anti" crowd trying to force their beliefs on us. The difficult part is figuring out whether this is the basis for their feelings or some other reasons. Not everyone is very well spoken and able or willing to effectively communicate such deep rooted beliefs.

The way I see it, I'm not taking a life, I'm defending myself. God decides if they live or die.

 

[the1kidd03]

The way I see it, I'm not taking a life, I'm defending myself. God decides if they live or die.

Agreed, but that's not how a lot of other people see it. It's important that if you wish to educate other's on responsible gun ownership and their rights that you do it appropriately. Some people just feel that it's wrong no matter what and it's important to understand those types of people and simply be friendly and agree to disagree. Don't push your opinions on them any more than you want them to push theirs on you.

 

[NDguido]

Agreed, but that's not how a lot of other people see it. It's important that if you wish to educate other's on responsible gun ownership and their rights that you do it appropriately. Some people just feel that it's wrong no matter what and it's important to understand those types of people and simply be friendly and agree to disagree. Don't push your opinions on them any more than you want them to push theirs on you.

My mother is very much like you describe, and you're right. There is absolutely no changing her mind. My sisters are very much the same way. My dad, on the other hand has always been a gun enthusiast......strange how some things work out.

 

[the1kidd03]

My mother is very much like you describe, and you're right. There is absolutely no changing her mind. My sisters are very much the same way. My dad, on the other hand has always been a gun enthusiast......strange how some things work out.

Same here. My dad and his side of the family are gun guys. Even my mother's dad hunted and everyone in their family. My mom wasn't afraid of them or anything just not really big into them. But SOMEHOW my sister HATES them, even though I don't think she's ever so much as held one. She's FAR LEFT and has never had a bad experience in her life. We just don't see eye to eye so I do not bring that issue up. I come across a lot of people though where guns come up in the convo. I've helped several people overcome their fears of them and actually get really into shooting. It is possible. It just takes patience, dedication, and an understanding of the other person's point of view. Again, assuming it's not against their personal morals.

 

[Stschil]

I know, and I don't care what anyone thinks either. Just trying to come to some kind of an answer to stop all the bickering. The way we carry, as long as it is within the parameters of the law, is our business.

My brothers and I fought like cats and dogs among ourselves, but if there was ever any threat from outside, we always stood together.

That's all the OC/CC debate is. Brotherly love

 

[the1kidd03]

In light of this conversation though I think I'll write an article to help people spark the interest of newbies and anti's. How to help people ethically progress in their way of thinking. I'll be sure to comment back here when I post it. Hopefully, I'll get it up by the weekend.

 

[cg21]

my wife made a similiar comment about guns......... But she is not a mother yet. And she was also very anti gun until i took her out shooting... so I am thinking she will come around.

 

[the1kidd03]

my wife made a similiar comment about guns......... But she is not a mother yet. And she was also very anti gun until i took her out shooting... so I am thinking she will come around.

Yes. Remember that a majority of people's experience with guns is what they see on TV. Biased news reports on who got killed by a gun, bad guys shooting at innocent people on movies, etc,etc. For that reason, it is important to first get an understanding of WHY they feel the way they do. Once you've determined that it's not a matter of their morals, simply a lack of proper experience, USE those biased news reports to your advantage to show them how a responsible gun owner handles situations. (i.e. well if he had been following the firearms safety rules X wouldn't happen because ***, Y wouldn't happen because ****, Z wouldn't happen because ****)

At that point they will begin to realize there is much more to learn about guns than they ever thought about. It may take several more discussions similar to this, but eventually they will come to have a level of trust in you as far as being knowledgeable and safe with firearms. Keep being persistent, respectful, and friendly. Eventually, once you make the invite they will like you to take them to their first firearms experience because they are comfortable with you. At this point, it's ALL up to you so play responsibly. Make their first experience a positive one. A 95lb girl trying to manage the recoil of a plastic .40S&W isn't going to be a comfortable or positive first experience. Take them into consideration and set them up with something fun and manageable.

 

[88GT]

My brothers and I fought like cats and dogs among ourselves, but if there was ever any threat from outside, we always stood together.

That's all the OC/CC debate is. Brotherly love

Ahem!

my wife made a similiar comment about guns......... But she is not a mother yet. And she was also very anti gun until i took her out shooting... so I am thinking she will come around.

My transformation occurred before I became a mother, but I was once a fence sitter. Though I was never truly opposed to private firearm ownership or carry, I had some questionable thought processes. And look at me now. I usually carry TWO firearms, one of which is almost always OC. There's hope, provided she operates on a rational basis and not an emotional one. There's little hope for the emotional ones unless you want to stage an event to help them change their minds. Which I don't recommend unless you also want to spend in jail.

 

[blamecharles]

Wow. That's pretty heavy. I don't know how to change a persons thought process like that.

I would maybe say to them If that is your choice for how you would suffer your own demise that is one thing but would you feel the same if you were to witness your child or another loved one going through that same fate?

We tried that and she just said if it's my time then so be it. No thought of if it was the BG's time it was his time.

Well, first you have to find out and understand WHY they feel that way. Some people simply have a personal moral ground that they don't feel it is their right to make a choice which involves taking another's life. If this is the case, you're simply not going to change their mind and I encourage you NOT to try. If you try too hard then that makes you no better than the "anti" crowd trying to force their beliefs on us. The difficult part is figuring out whether this is the basis for their feelings or some other reasons. Not everyone is very well spoken and able or willing to effectively communicate such deep rooted beliefs.

I told my GF that she was just making it worse by putting her friend in a defensive position. It is a really weird situation because her friend LOVES i mean jumping up and down clapping at the thought of going shooting.