any law enforcement on here answer this question

[BehindBlueI's]

his was touched on in another thread here

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._question.html

If you read my posts it it I think I exlpained it pretty well. I am a Lead Firearms instructor for a Federal Agency and we have recurring training on LEOSA a lot since our folks are covered by it.

I don't understand why people are so wraped around the axel with LEOSA. You can have Statutory Powers of Arrest on duty only and only for one thing say Assaulting an Officer, and as long as you are qualifed with fireams, supervise incarcerated/detaind persons (and not under disciplinary etc ) and an employee of a GOV agency You are qualified! There is no specification on full or part time employment or if you have SPA on duty only or both on and off duty.
Several Federal Agencies have SOA on duty only. VA Police, Federal Bureau of Prisons employees and a few others and they are covered!

There are several agencies some Federal as well (mine is one) that only have SPA on duty only and they are covered because LEOSA doesent specify on duty or off, it doesent specify full or part time just employee of GOV agency and qualified with firearms.

As I stated in earlier posts you can have SPA but if you are not qualified with firearms you are not covered, You could carry firearms but no have SPA just able to detain and you are not covered (think Military MP's)

If you are a Reserve Officer and fit the 6 criteria you are Covered!

That's all well and good, but still doesn't mean that every reserve deputy is covered by LEOSA.

Like the BMV lady I posted about, she's a reserve deputy and had an ID card that said as much, but wasn't firearms qualified and had no arrest power so (even though this was way before LEOSA) wouldn't have qualified. If she wanted to carry, she would have needed to get a LTCH.

Not all deputies are employees of a government agency in Indiana. Roche Diagnostics, for example, employees deputies. They are trained and authorized by MCSD, but are not in any form employees of the MCSD. Not all deputies are authorized firearms or get any firearms training.

****************

II. NON-EMPLOYEE (BUSINESS) - Special Deputy Sheriff.

The second category is that of Non-Employee (Business) - Special Deputy Sheriff. These individuals have been granted limited police powers to adequately perform police duties for private employers. They are granted the authority to (1) keep the peace and (2) to make arrests and to detain - in custody - any person arrested until the cause of such arrest has been investigated.

A person wishing to become a business Special Deputy Sheriff must first be employed by a public agency or private company which has been specifically approved by the Sheriff of Marion County to hire and use Special Deputies. The employer must provide liability insurance and an "Employer's Indemnification Agreement" for each business Special Deputy it employs. A business Special Deputies may work for more than one employer but each employer must provide liability insurance an "Employer's Indemnification Agreement" for each Special Deputies.

If the business Special Deputy is not working for, or engaged in activity on behalf of the employer who provided the liability insurance and "Employer's Indemnification Agreement", they are not endowed with police powers at that time. In other words, when you leave work you do not have police powers.

Only Special Deputies who are specifically authorized to carry firearms by the Sheriff may carry firearms. Such authorization does not include carrying or possessing a handgun while off duty. If a business Special Deputies, not having other law enforcement authority, wishes to legally carry a handgun off duty he must obtain and possess an Indiana Handgun Permit. NOTE: The possession of an Indiana Gun Permit does not entitle a business Special Deputies to possess or carry a handgun while on duty as a Special Deputies. Only those business Special Deputy specifically authorized to do so may carry firearms.

source: Special Deputy (Non-MCSO Employees)

 

[JBLee]

Is a reserve sheriff deputy considered a LEO when he is not on the job?

Yes, Reserve Officers swear an oath to protect same as Merit Deputies. They carry a badge and police powers 24-7. There are some restrictions but essentially yes.

 

[Fargo]

Why are people assuming that a special deputy and a reserve officer are the same thing?

A reserve deputy and a special deputy are NOT the same thing. They are both created by and governed by separate and very different statutes.

See bolded below:

250 IAC 2-1-13 "Reserve police officer" defined
Authority: IC 5-2-1-9
Affected: IC 36-8-3-7; IC 36-8-3-20; IC 36-8-10-6; IC 36-8-10-10.6
Sec. 13. "Reserve police officer" means any member of a police reserve unit created under IC 36-8-3-20, whether called
reserve police officer, reserve officer, or by another name. Not included in this definition are the following:
(1) Additional deputies or assistants appointed by a sheriff in an emergency under IC 36-8-10-6.
(2) Special deputies or legal deputies appointed by a sheriff under IC 36-8-10-10.6.
(3) Special police officers, who are not regular police officers, who are appointed by a municipal safety board under IC 36-8-
3-7 to do special duty within the city.
(Law Enforcement Training Board; 250 IAC 2-1-13; filed Dec 23, 2003, 3:00 p.m.: 27 IR 1553; readopted filed Nov 30, 2010, 11:14
a.m.: 20101229-IR-250100663RFA)

Many special deputies LE powers are restricted by law to while on duty or while in the correctional facility they are working in, etc. They are a very different creature than a reserve officer.

While departments may restrict the authority of reserves under 36-8-3-20, in my experience they generally do not do so. They are very different legal creatures from say a marion co. special deputy.

Best,

Joe

 

[in625shooter]

That's all well and good, but still doesn't mean that every reserve deputy is covered by LEOSA.

Like the BMV lady I posted about, she's a reserve deputy and had an ID card that said as much, but wasn't firearms qualified and had no arrest power so (even though this was way before LEOSA) wouldn't have qualified. If she wanted to carry, she would have needed to get a LTCH.

Not all deputies are employees of a government agency in Indiana. Roche Diagnostics, for example, employees deputies. They are trained and authorized by MCSD, but are not in any form employees of the MCSD. Not all deputies are authorized firearms or get any firearms training.

****************

II. NON-EMPLOYEE (BUSINESS) - Special Deputy Sheriff.

The second category is that of Non-Employee (Business) - Special Deputy Sheriff. These individuals have been granted limited police powers to adequately perform police duties for private employers. They are granted the authority to (1) keep the peace and (2) to make arrests and to detain - in custody - any person arrested until the cause of such arrest has been investigated.

A person wishing to become a business Special Deputy Sheriff must first be employed by a public agency or private company which has been specifically approved by the Sheriff of Marion County to hire and use Special Deputies. The employer must provide liability insurance and an "Employer's Indemnification Agreement" for each business Special Deputy it employs. A business Special Deputies may work for more than one employer but each employer must provide liability insurance an "Employer's Indemnification Agreement" for each Special Deputies.

If the business Special Deputy is not working for, or engaged in activity on behalf of the employer who provided the liability insurance and "Employer's Indemnification Agreement", they are not endowed with police powers at that time. In other words, when you leave work you do not have police powers.

Only Special Deputies who are specifically authorized to carry firearms by the Sheriff may carry firearms. Such authorization does not include carrying or possessing a handgun while off duty. If a business Special Deputies, not having other law enforcement authority, wishes to legally carry a handgun off duty he must obtain and possess an Indiana Handgun Permit. NOTE: The possession of an Indiana Gun Permit does not entitle a business Special Deputies to possess or carry a handgun while on duty as a Special Deputies. Only those business Special Deputy specifically authorized to do so may carry firearms.

source: Special Deputy (Non-MCSO Employees)

BehindBlueI's nobody said every Reserve Deputy was covered! If Said Deputy IS NOT Authorized to carry Firearms by the agency (#4 below)than they do not meet all of the 6 criteria to be qualified by an active (by active I mean someone working for the GOV agency either full time or as a Reserve) LEO to be covered by LEOSA Period!


Once again if you only have authority to make arrests on duty only and you are still covered by LEOSA IF you meet all 6 criteria. It does not specify on or off duty. If you meet all 6 you are covered if you meet 5 of the 6 you are not covered. It's not rocket science (congress wrote it)

1. an employee of a governmental agency, (It does not specify full or part time)
2. be authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law,
3. have statutory powers of arrest,
4. be authorized by the agency to carry a firearm,
5. not be the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency (which could result in suspension or loss of police powers),[2] and
6. meet standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm.

 

[Hookeye]

I did not see a post that said "Printcraft, Printcraft, Printcraft!"

Uh.............oops.

 

[karatejoe]

dont sell guns if your chicken

 

[OkieGirl]

I did not see a post that said "Printcraft, Printcraft, Printcraft!"

Uh.............oops.

I know, Right! It was like sending out the Batman sign in the sky and there he was in all of his hairy glory! Yikes!

 

[jaybird_123]

I have been selling a few guns and was contacted by a guy from indy he stated he did not have a permit but he was a reserve sheriff and didnt need a permit all he need was his police ID from the police department to buy,

I refused to sale to him because of that didnt want to meet at the pd but at a gas station
but if he is or was officer I would think meeting me there would be a safe bet for me and him also

I know in the state of Indiana you dont have to have a permit to buy a weapon just to carry it , I will not sale to anyone with out a permit and valid Ind driver lic, just my preference

my question is being a police officer do you still need a permit to cary a weapon ,

Does not matter if they are former sheriff or police officer, all that matters is if they are an Indiana resident without a felony conviction. No license needed to buy a firearm.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BehindBlueI's nobody said every Reserve Deputy was covered!

The OP's original post is: "I have been selling a few guns and was contacted by a guy from indy he stated he did not have a permit but he was a reserve sheriff and didnt need a permit all he need was his police ID from the police department to buy,
"

The OP apparently doesn't want to sell someone without a LTCH or equivalent.

The OP has no way to determine if a reserve deputy qualifies for LEOSA or not based on his ID.

Let's not lose sight of what the thread is about. Does someone who is a reserve deputy qualify to carry without a LTCH. The answer is maybe. Teaching the OP all about LEOSA is more detail than he needs, and probably more than he wants.

 

[Fargo]

The OP's original post is: "I have been selling a few guns and was contacted by a guy from indy he stated he did not have a permit but he was a reserve sheriff and didnt need a permit all he need was his police ID from the police department to buy,
"

The OP apparently doesn't want to sell someone without a LTCH or equivalent.

The OP has no way to determine if a reserve deputy qualifies for LEOSA or not based on his ID.

Let's not lose sight of what the thread is about. Does someone who is a reserve deputy qualify to carry without a LTCH. The answer is maybe. Teaching the OP all about LEOSA is more detail than he needs, and probably more than he wants.

Why do you say the answer on carrying without a lTCH is "maybe?" Are you claiming that reserve deputies don't fall within the 35-47-1-17 definition of law enforcement officers? If they do, 35-47-2-2(5) answers the question definitively. I think 36-8-3-20 makes it pretty clear they do fall in within the definition.

Remember, we are talking about reserves, NOT specials.

LEOSA probably doesn't even come into it because state law already addresses it.


Best,

Joe

 

[mrortega]

I think Mr. Hillbilly could join Tin Can and live happily ever after. Anybody seen TC lately?

 

[in625shooter]

The OP's original post is: "I have been selling a few guns and was contacted by a guy from indy he stated he did not have a permit but he was a reserve sheriff and didnt need a permit all he need was his police ID from the police department to buy,
"

The OP apparently doesn't want to sell someone without a LTCH or equivalent.

The OP has no way to determine if a reserve deputy qualifies for LEOSA or not based on his ID.

Let's not lose sight of what the thread is about. Does someone who is a reserve deputy qualify to carry without a LTCH. The answer is maybe. Teaching the OP all about LEOSA is more detail than he needs, and probably more than he wants.

I hear you, Myself personally I was just trying to clarify the whole LEOSA thing since I am involved with it and it went that far out of the way/off topic!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Why do you say the answer on carrying without a lTCH is "maybe?" Are you claiming that reserve deputies don't fall within the 35-47-1-17 definition of law enforcement officers? If they do, 35-47-2-2(5) answers the question definitively. I think 36-8-3-20 makes it pretty clear they do fall in within the definition.

Remember, we are talking about reserves, NOT specials.

LEOSA probably doesn't even come into it because state law already addresses it.


Best,

Joe

Because unless there has been some change to IC I'm unaware of, "reserve" and "special" are not mutually exclusive, and a deputy could be both. One could be a reserve jail deputy, for example, and be both. This used to be fairly common in smaller counties where everyone starts out in the jail before becoming a "road" deputy. I've already given one example of a reserve who was also a special earlier in the thread.

 

[kjf40]

Children, can we please stay on topic? Put your big girl panties on and focus on the shiny object long enough to answer the guys question...{sigh}

LOL.......nicely said

 

[Timcor3]

Unreal, I thought this was an easy question. Also thought this was a "gun owners site" not grammar school. So quick to judge! Maybe we should start requiring self portraits and education levels acheived on here and see who the winner is!

 

[Fargo]

Because unless there has been some change to IC I'm unaware of, "reserve" and "special" are not mutually exclusive, and a deputy could be both. One could be a reserve jail deputy, for example, and be both. This used to be fairly common in smaller counties where everyone starts out in the jail before becoming a "road" deputy. I've already given one example of a reserve who was also a special earlier in the thread.

Yes, reserve and special are mutually exclusive and very different things. Reserves are created by 36-8-3-20 and Specials are created by 36-8-10-10.6.

250 IAC 2-1-13, which is posted in my 1st post in this thread, explicitly says that Specials are not and cannot be included in the definition of a Reserve.

I suppose a person could be appointed a reserve office and become a special deputy at the same time but it would be two very different offices held by the same person and his status as a special would in no way affect or impair his status as a reserve.

The county I live in used to have its jail deputies also become reserves. However they then got in a bunch of legal trouble and ended up paying a bunch of money by trying to act like they were specials only. Being a special and being a reserve are different and distinct and not to be confused.

Best,

Joe

 

[Shift]

I hate grammar nazis.