Afghanistan

[erasure]

 

[Hatin Since 87]

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Been thinking of something since you posted this. The Soviets invaded in 79, bugged out in early 89. SO that was 32-42 years ago. These guys are still alive?

Yeah, they're the dudes with the gray beards now though. I was 19 in 1979.

 

[gregr]

Blaming Biden for Afghanistan is like blaming Gerald Ford for Vietnam.

But, this is an opinion thread.....

Had we focused on Afghanistan rather than the distraction in Iraq, things might have come out differently. But, realistically, who among us wouldn't have predicted the exact result we've seen this week as the end of the war?

Whoa whoa whoa...biden, (his handlers) made the choice to pull out. You bet they get the credit for that, which is resulting in this mess, which we don`t have the slightest clue so far how much it will endanger us, and put the entire world in turmoil.

 

[Cameramonkey]

To any Afghanistan vets,

I'm sincerely sorry right now. Sorry that your country's leadership has let you down. Sorry that the Afghan military and people have let you down.

It ended up being a folly since the locals refused to grow a backbone and fight for themselves, but you did your best.

Your sacrifice and loss is appreciated. We will never forget.

 

[gregr]

Vietnam War

Southeast Asia War

Looks like the same guy to me.

 

[gregr]

View attachment 153171

Has the same feel as Benghazi...

 

[JCSR]

Do you think they saved the Pride flag?

 

[KellyinAvon]

Yeah, they're the dudes with the gray beards now though. I was 19 in 1979.

I know we're still kickin (I was 14 in 1979), but we're in the USA where we should make it to 80. People in general in the 'stan can't live to be that old (65 in 2019, it was 50 in 1990, I looked.) If your work history includes "Warlord in the Kandahar area" you got one up on Keith Richards!

 

[KG1]

I know we're still kickin (I was 14 in 1979), but we're in the USA where we should make it to 80. People in general in the 'stan can't live to be that old (65 in 2019, it was 50 in 1990, I looked.) If your work history includes "Warlord in the Kandahar area" you got one up on Keith Richards!

Keith Richards cannot be killed by conventional weapons.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I know we're still kickin (I was 14 in 1979), but we're in the USA where we should make it to 80. People in general in the 'stan can't live to be that old (65 in 2019, it was 50 in 1990, I looked.) If your work history includes "Warlord in the Kandahar area" you got one up on Keith Richards!

How old are some of the Taliban and Al Q'aeda leaders now though? I mean the higher ups... the grand poobahs so to speak.

 

[gregr]

How old are some of the Taliban and Al Q'aeda leaders now though? I mean the higher ups... the grand poobahs so to speak.

Whatever their ages, they`re a LOT older than they should ever have been allowed to get...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So they no longer carry the families last name? Or is this just the name they “go by” but their legal name would be “Abdullah Lastname”? Interesting.

Real short version: Arabic naming conventions do not exactly match up to modern Western conventions of given name, middle given name, surname. That guy's "full" name is almost certainly longer, but just like we tend to not use middle names in most circumstances, that's the name he will use most of the time.

Longer version:
It's more complicated, and there may or may not be a family name (but in modern times it's by far the most common to have one). Sometimes what we would consider the family name will be a tribe or even an area. Kind of like old English "John of York" where York is where John is from, not his family or John Baker indicated his profession but now it's just morphed into a family name even if you aren't actually a baker. Abdullah Abdullah is certainly not his full name, if for no other reason than titles are omitted. Titles in this context are things like "son of..." or "father of..." and I'll touch on that shortly.

"Legal name" may or may not have any meaning, depending on how developed the area in question is. A "full name" could be up to five individual words, including titles.

Naming conventions aren't universal and are sometimes confusing and the name you are born with may not be the one you die with (which sounds odd at first, but Western women often die with a different surname then they were born with), but usually the father's name is in their somewhere. To make it even more fun, the father will now often use the first son's name with a title that means "father of ..." so if that guy is the first son of his father, his father may now go by Abu Abdullah. Women sometimes do the same with "mother of." We would generally consider that a nickname by Western standards, and in developed areas it won't be what's on their driver's license, etc. Tribal areas, from what I understand, tend to be less picky on "legal name" conventions.

My wife's (pre-marriage) name follows this convention: given name, father's given name, father's honorific, family name. Now it's given name, father's given name, my family name in the Western style. She could have taken my middle name in place of her father's given name, apparently, as I recall some discussion about it early on before she stuck with her father's. In Jordan either of us could legitimately go by (parent of): son's first name.

And then, just because what's a rule without exceptions, the "father of..." thing is not always literal but can be a joking nickname or an honorific. "Father of goats" for a local herder or "Father of justice" for a revered judge sort of things.

So if there was an Abdullah the 4th, or Gunnar the 4th, they'd be Abdullah Abdullah Abdullah Abdullah and Gunnar Gunnarson Gunnarsonsson Gunnarsssonsonson?

As best I can tell, it just remains "Abdullah Abdullah" because the 2nd Abdullah is the 1st Abdullah for the father and that 1st part is all you use. There's probably an unspoken "bin" in the middle, meaning "son of" if you were to find his "full" name.

 

[foszoe]

Whoa whoa whoa...biden, (his handlers) made the choice to pull out. You bet they get the credit for that, which is resulting in this mess, which we don`t have the slightest clue so far how much it will endanger us, and put the entire world in turmoil.

You are denying Trump made the same decision?

Do you think we should have stayed?

 

[gregr]

You are denying Trump made the same decision?

Do you think we should have stayed?

Unfortunately, once we got in, we needed to stay until we KNEW they could take care of themselves. Like it or not, it`s immoral and weak of us to do what we`re doing. Those animals are going to literally brutalize everyone.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You are denying Trump made the same decision?

Do you think we should have stayed?

Trump definitely set the stage to leave. I linked the document. You can be in favor of leaving while recognizing there are multiple ways to accomplish leaving and how it was done under Biden is a maddening catastrophe.

 

[foszoe]

Unfortunately, once we got in, we needed to stay until we KNEW they could take care of themselves. Like it or not, it`s immoral and weak of us to do what we`re doing. Those animals are going to literally brutalize everyone.

Sometimes the moral high ground can't be held.

I can't imagine what the guys who lost comrades there much less the families of the dead are feeling right now.

I imagine Vietnam vets can empathize.

There are time you have to cut your losses. Unfortunately we don't seem to remember the lessons of history.

 

[foszoe]

Trump definitely set the stage to leave. I linked the document. You can be in favor of leaving while recognizing there are multiple ways to accomplish leaving and how it was done under Biden is a maddening catastrophe.

I was just gonna hit the like button but my agreement with you is emphatic

 

[rhamersley]

Real short version: Arabic naming conventions do not exactly match up to modern Western conventions of given name, middle given name, surname. That guy's "full" name is almost certainly longer, but just like we tend to not use middle names in most circumstances, that's the name he will use most of the time.

Longer version:
It's more complicated, and there may or may not be a family name (but in modern times it's by far the most common to have one). Sometimes what we would consider the family name will be a tribe or even an area. Kind of like old English "John of York" where York is where John is from, not his family or John Baker indicated his profession but now it's just morphed into a family name even if you aren't actually a baker. Abdullah Abdullah is certainly not his full name, if for no other reason than titles are omitted. Titles in this context are things like "son of..." or "father of..." and I'll touch on that shortly.

"Legal name" may or may not have any meaning, depending on how developed the area in question is. A "full name" could be up to five individual words, including titles.

Naming conventions aren't universal and are sometimes confusing and the name you are born with may not be the one you die with (which sounds odd at first, but Western women often die with a different surname then they were born with), but usually the father's name is in their somewhere. To make it even more fun, the father will now often use the first son's name with a title that means "father of ..." so if that guy is the first son of his father, his father may now go by Abu Abdullah. Women sometimes do the same with "mother of." We would generally consider that a nickname by Western standards, and in developed areas it won't be what's on their driver's license, etc. Tribal areas, from what I understand, tend to be less picky on "legal name" conventions.

My wife's (pre-marriage) name follows this convention: given name, father's given name, father's honorific, family name. Now it's given name, father's given name, my family name in the Western style. She could have taken my middle name in place of her father's given name, apparently, as I recall some discussion about it early on before she stuck with her father's. In Jordan either of us could legitimately go by (parent of): son's first name.

And then, just because what's a rule without exceptions, the "father of..." thing is not always literal but can be a joking nickname or an honorific. "Father of goats" for a local herder or "Father of justice" for a revered judge sort of things.


As best I can tell, it just remains "Abdullah Abdullah" because the 2nd Abdullah is the 1st Abdullah for the father and that 1st part is all you use. There's probably an unspoken "bin" in the middle, meaning "son of" if you were to find his "full" name.

Well, can we just call them Bruce?

 

[gregr]

Trump definitely set the stage to leave. I linked the document. You can be in favor of leaving while recognizing there are multiple ways to accomplish leaving and how it was done under Biden is a maddening catastrophe.

If/when we could leave without leaving these people like cattle ready for slaughter...