Adam vs Yeager

[HICKMAN]

This is the reason I can NEVER identify myself as a "Conservative" or anything else associated with that structure.

what does conservatism have to do with anything?

There is nothing wrong with being cautious, but do you mean to tell me that one person who started a cause now has you cringing in a corner, afraid to raise your head, even though the cause she started was meant to strip away your rights?

Not at all, but the method is moronic.

If they want to legalize drugs, is the best move to take a few thousand people and plant them on the White House lawn and have them get bombed on meth, coke, dope and whatever else they feel like bringing? Is that how you convince others to change the law?

I'm not sure what "we" are doing, but this guy is doing something and even if you don't march with him, you could at least stop pouring salt on his effort.

again, how am I affecting his effort? By having an opinion? He's doing the EXACT same thing Yeager does... whatever it takes to draw attention to himself. Hell, they are both libertarians and are fighting each other online.

I guess you are against "marching" of any sort, because that is giving them ammo? Didn't I see you at a rally here in Indianapolis? Come on man! Stop thinking you are going to make friends with them and they will then leave you alone!

Did we break any laws in Indy? No

Did we get our point across peacefully and professionally? Yes

Why is it you think if we adopt Occupy Wall Street tactics we will somehow have better results than they did?


You must have forgotten I'm one of those "assclowns" that Pincus & Yeager was talking about in their open carry video. Advocating and educating others is one thing, breaking the law and wanting to get arrested is another.

 

[HICKMAN]

Just a note to those of you nauseated by soccer moms:

I live in the burbs. I'm white. I'm middle class. I drive a van.
Until mine graduated, I spent MOST of my time being a taxi for volleyball, softball, soccer, band, basketball, and Girl Scouts.... sometimes from one event to another.
By all definitions, *I* was/am a "soccer mom"... and it "nauseates" *me* to constantly hear people classifying all the involved moms into that same category and then equating it with bleeding heart liberals.
Kids with lots of activities does not equate "liberal mom".

Just sayin'.

Signed,
Independent thinking libertarian leaning fiscally conservative Constitutionally-minded Soccer mom.

/rant

Yeah... I'm married to a mother of four who carries all day at work and when playing taxi driver herself.


http://youtu.be/oEzjm_YfI0k



You know exactly what soccer moms I'm talking about, so don't play the "you lumped us all in the same group" bit on me.

 

[JetGirl]

don't play the "you lumped us all in the same group" bit on me.

Then don't post like it.

If what you say about your lady is true... then you, of all people, should know better.

 

[HICKMAN]

Then don't post like it.

If what you say about your lady is true... then you, of all people, should know better.

She and I don't follow the rules of political correctness.

I'll apologize to you as a fellow INGOer/gunowner.

In our house, it's a running joke as my wife can't stand them.

 

[JetGirl]

She and I don't follow the rules of political correctness.

I'll apologize to you as a fellow INGOer/gunowner.

In our house, it's a running joke as my wife can't stand them.

Understood. And thanks.
It just irks me because "soccer mom = liberal" is about as accurate as "gun owner = bloodthirsty psychopath looking for a reason". I hear both way too often.

 

[Que]

what does conservatism have to do with anything?

Well, you posted "them" and I thought they were the liberals and "us" were the conservative-leaning citizens.

Not at all, but the method is moronic.

If they want to legalize drugs, is the best move to take a few thousand people and plant them on the White House lawn and have them get bombed on meth, coke, dope and whatever else they feel like bringing? Is that how you convince others to change the law?

I"m not sure, but the last time I checked smoking a bong of weed wasn't a Constitutionally protected right.

again, how am I affecting his effort? By having an opinion? He's doing the EXACT same thing Yeager does... whatever it takes to draw attention to himself. Hell, they are both libertarians and are fighting each other online.

There is nothing wrong with an opinion. Yeah, he and Yeager disagree and I certainly do not agree with everything either of them choose to do. However, their bickering is fodder for their own bravado. They both agree that our liberties are in jeopardy and although Adam may have chosen a drastic way to forward change, I refuse to criticize his action.

Did we break any laws in Indy? No

We do not have to break the law to OC here in Indianapolis.

Did we get our point across peacefully and professionally? Yes

You may say that we did, but those soccer moms certainly didn't like it and we were on the news drawing attention, so what makes our efforts any safer than Adam's?

Why is it you think if we adopt Occupy Wall Street tactics we will somehow have better results than they did?

Occupy Wall Street was about a bunch of freeloaders demanding something for which they did not or would not work to achieve. I think the right to bear arms was worked for and paid for a long time ago. As far as results go, I have no idea what will happen, but we shall see.

You must have forgotten I'm one of those "assclowns" that Pincus & Yeager was talking about in their open carry video. Advocating and educating others is one thing, breaking the law and wanting to get arrested is another.

I guess I did forget that, but I also know that long before esrice mentioned Yeager, I recall you posting about him, which is one of the reasons I started considering his class. I also do not recall him mentioning your name in a video, but if he did, that was wrong. If he was simply talking about OCers, why do you care what he thinks if you choose to OC?

Yeager doesn't agree with OC; he doesn't prefer the .40 S&W or the 1911. We will NEVER agree on these matters. I disagree with Adam putting himself in the position to legally lose the right to own firearms. I wish he could devise a different plan, but that is his choice. I will support Yeager's decision concerning what I've listed here and I will support Adam's choice of civil disobedience.

 

[bwframe]

http://youtu.be/oEzjm_YfI0k

 

[HICKMAN]

Her next video may start with "HIIII BUUUURL!!"

 

[bwframe]

Her next video may start with "HIIII BUUUURL!!"

 

[Hornett]

I don't see what all the uproar is about.
I watched Yeagers first video and he seemed to me to be very careful not to offend Adam personally.
And he never impugned people that wanted to go to the march and carry weapons in DC.
He simply did not agree with that particular method and could not personally support it like people wanted him to.
The last part is important.
I think some of his followers wanted him to support this march and possibly even go himself, so he felt he had to respond for their sakes.
He did say that the best outcome is people being arrested and the worst outcome could even involve bodily injury (which I took to mean being shot by police).
A similar position has been stated on this very board.
Keep in mind this is coming from a guy (Yeager) that just got his LTCH back after doing something rash recently.

Followers of Adam:
Have your march.
Do your best.
God speed to you all.
But, don't expect everyone to agree with your methods.

 

[HICKMAN]

I wish he could devise a different plan, but that is his choice. I will support Yeager's decision concerning what I've listed here and I will support Adam's choice of civil disobedience.

I think the point that I'm making, albiet poorly, is that we are just an election or two away from a SCOTUS that will either gut the 2nd amendment completely or limit it down to having guns registered and left at home.

I fall somewhere in the conservative/libertarian campSo for arguement sake, I'll swap out liberals for anti-gunners.

My point remains, what do we gain from drawing more attention to ourselves? As much as I hate to admit it, Pincus is right in the fact that negative came from the OC debate in California and they LOST the right they had to OC an unloaded handgun.

I've probably evolved a little on this topic after this thread a year ago.

Pincus wrote a piece in response to this and said "Guns should be carried for personal defense, not Activism." and I guess I get his point, even though I don't agree with it 100%.


The question remains, what happens if he's right? What happens if the antis get the votes from all of the demographic groups they are targeting and we LEGALLY see a change to the Constitution?

What do we have to gain from a march on DC?

I'm not trying to be argumentative Que, but what's the strategy here?

 

[apfroggy0408]

Good luck getting that amended.

 

[HICKMAN]

Good luck getting that amended.

"Good luck with that Clinton Assault Weapons Ban, it'll never happen".....

 

[bwframe]

I don't see what all the uproar is about.
I watched Yeagers first video and he seemed to me to be very careful not to offend Adam personally.
And he never impugned people that wanted to go to the march and carry weapons in DC.
He simply did not agree with that particular method and could not personally support it like people wanted him to.
The last part is important.
I think some of his followers wanted him to support this march and possibly even go himself, so he felt he had to respond for their sakes.
...

A smart thing to do would have been to respond personally to his own questioning orange dicks and keep his mouth shut about it on YouTube. Otherwise he would be throwing down with the now jailed pot head...

...oh and here we are, in the mud, makin' us all proud to be one of them...

 

[Que]

I think the point that I'm making, albiet poorly, is that we are just an election or two away from a SCOTUS that will either gut the 2nd amendment completely or limit it down to having guns registered and left at home.

We will be in this position as long as the sun continues to shine. I think history has shown that just because a liberal or conservative President places someone on the SC doesn't mean that SCJ will vote within that political vein. So, until we become prophetic and can determine how the SC will vote, we can only continue to show them that we care about matters such as this.

I fall somewhere in the conservative/libertarian campSo for arguement sake, I'll swap out liberals for anti-gunners.

My point remains, what do we gain from drawing more attention to ourselves? As much as I hate to admit it, Pincus is right in the fact that negative came from the OC debate in California and they LOST the right they had to OC an unloaded handgun.

I'm not trying to avoid your question, but I ask myself, "What do we gain by remaining quiet?" Yeah, the possibility of our rights being stripped away are always present, but why would anyone want to accept the "right" to OC an empty gun? I would rather fight and lose than to remain under that law. What's the difference between carrying an unladed gun and leaving it at home, when seconds may matter?

I've probably evolved a little on this topic after this thread a year ago.

Pincus wrote a piece in response to this and said "Guns should be carried for personal defense, not Activism." and I guess I get his point, even though I don't agree with it 100%.

It seems to me that a gun should be carried for any purpose the carrier wants, except to perform criminal acts. In this case, it's carrying a gun that is illegal, so these people can't even protect themselves! What do you suggest they do?

The question remains, what happens if he's right? What happens if the antis get the votes from all of the demographic groups they are targeting and we LEGALLY see a change to the Constitution?

This is a simple answer: we will all have to make a choice whether we want to remain law abiding citizens or start performing a criminal act with the possibly of being caught and then having a criminal record, possibly federal.

What do we have to gain from a march on DC?

Probably nothing, but if there wasn't a march the same profit would be made. Sometimes people reach the end of their rope and they have to do something. It's better this guy marches than completely goes against his government and blows up a federal building.

I'm not trying to be argumentative Que, but what's the strategy here?

I know you are not being argumentative and I'm not attempting to be, either. We just have differing opinions and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[HICKMAN]

Good points Que, most of me agrees with everything you've said.

Then Pincus/Yeager posted that stupid OC video and I started looking at the "harm" they claim happens because of OC advocacy.

I specifically OC'd many times because I know the Brady Campaign hates our "normalizing" guns back into society, after they've worked for years to get us to cover them up or hide them.

I don't know... I wish we had a solid strategy for educating our fellow Americans, many of whom don't really give a crap out the Constitution or the great qualities of our great Republic.... who only care about what they can get for themselves.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Adam and Yeager remind me of elementary school. I can see it now. I have to make a rebuttal video good sir, how dear you trash talk me on the interwebz.

 

[esrice]

Adam and Yeager remind me of elementary school. I can see it now. I have to make a rebuttal video good sir, how dear you trash talk me on the interwebz.

Didn't you post a YouTube Yeager rebuttal video once? Or was that someone else?

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Didn't you post a YouTube Yeager rebuttal video once? Or was that someone else?

No, I have better things to do then make videos trash talking someone on You Tube.

 

[dansgotguns]

No, I have better things to do then make videos trash talking someone on You Tube.

Just do it in type form?