A bad thing happened in INDY!

[Denny347]

The point in 4 is only valid in certain situations -- it bears no resemblance to a drive-by shooting or a group indiscriminately spraying rounds into a crowd or opening fire in a crowd. As to the "to anyone [who] has fired"... Oh, my. I humped a 60 and a 249 for years. I'm pretty comfortable with their capabilities and characteristics. Muzzle rise and difficulty in controlling them are greatly overstated. Don't know enough about the svd, to ill take your word for that one. An untrained guy with a 249 could mow down a crowd in seconds. For anyone who actually knows the 249, that's a scary weapon to have in the wrong hands.

ETA: For those who don't actually know the 249, here's an example of the crazy, uncontrollable muzzle rise:

[video=youtube;2OZJ5icm5i4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OZJ5icm5i4[/video]

Some are just better for this than others. Like I said above, the M14 was about useless in full auto. Take that same 7.62 and fire it out of an M60 and at full auto it runs great. Not all full autos are created equal. The M4 is OK at full auto but not great. It does much better at single and short burst fire.

 

[Denny347]

A the end of the day I do not blame Profire for this theft. Blame the POS who took the trailer. Could Profire have made better choices? Maybe, but it is FAR from negligent and certainly not illegal. Thankfully, this shouldn't endanger their hard earned Class 3 license as they are no doubt honest, hard working small business owners. We need MORE of their type, not less.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

A the end of the day I do not blame Profire for this theft. Blame the POS who took the trailer. Could Profire have made better choices? Maybe, but it is FAR from negligent and certainly not illegal. Thankfully, this shouldn't endanger their hard earned Class 3 license as they are no doubt honest, hard working small business owners. We need MORE of their type, not less.

Agree completely.

 

[Disposable Heart]

A the end of the day I do not blame Profire for this theft. Blame the POS who took the trailer. Could Profire have made better choices? Maybe, but it is FAR from negligent and certainly not illegal. Thankfully, this shouldn't endanger their hard earned Class 3 license as they are no doubt honest, hard working small business owners. We need MORE of their type, not less.

I can agree with this. Not negligent, but a really stupid idea to say the least.

I like Profire and like Andrew alot. He is a nice guy and I hate seeing bad things happen to nice guys. I am scared of the idea of full auto running amok out there in the hands of people that shouldn't have it. I will continue to shop Profire if they allow me.

Any gun, semi, full auto, revolvers, single shots, matchlocks, positron cannons, etc... that are left unsecured are stupid. I'm not going to hold the owner to the flames if the gun is stolen, as it's the criminal's fault it was stolen. But, to leave it in a means where a criminal can obtain it is just plain foolish.

After thinking on it, I will say this kind of theft (secured tires, etc... but they still rolled off with it) is certainly notable, but there's always that element. If guys cut a hole in the ceiling of Profire and took them that way, would folks still be saying the same things?

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

A the end of the day I do not blame Profire for this theft. Blame the POS who took the trailer. Could Profire have made better choices? Maybe, but it is FAR from negligent and certainly not illegal. Thankfully, this shouldn't endanger their hard earned Class 3 license as they are no doubt honest, hard working small business owners. We need MORE of their type, not less.

 

[iChokePeople]

Some are just better for this than others. Like I said above, the M14 was about useless in full auto. Take that same 7.62 and fire it out of an M60 and at full auto it runs great. Not all full autos are created equal. The M4 is OK at full auto but not great. It does much better at single and short burst fire.

Agree completely. I only jumped into this thread to talk about one particular issue that was being discussed. I also agree with your other post. I think the Profire guys are good guys. I would still hope to do business with them, and agree that we need more good people. The only point I was attempting to address was the notion that a 249 is an uncontrollable beast that is LESS dangerous or scary than the average non-NFA weapon you'd find on the streets, barring the occasional well-trained sniper or that kind of thing.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

An untrained guy with a 249 could mow down a crowd in seconds. For anyone who actually knows the 249, that's a scary weapon to have in the wrong hands.

That's exactly the point I was making , just because it's FA doesn't mean it jumps all over the place .

Like Denny said , they (FA) aren't all created equally and some folks don't understand / haven't been trained in the concept of controlled / kill bursts .

All of the stolen weapons need to be off the streets .

 

[Robjps]

Agree completely. I only jumped into this thread to talk about one particular issue that was being discussed. I also agree with your other post. I think the Profire guys are good guys. I would still hope to do business with them, and agree that we need more good people. The only point I was attempting to address was the notion that a 249 is an uncontrollable beast that is LESS dangerous or scary than the average non-NFA weapon you'd find on the streets, barring the occasional well-trained sniper or that kind of thing.

Full Auto VS Semi-Auto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2PFY8MNVuY

Full auto on man portable guns is usually only used for suppressive fire. Not saying a full auto gun wont kill you all the same but there is a reason full auto is almost never used by the average soldier. Full auto and semi auto support each other. Full auto pins them down semi auto picks them off. Much like how tanks and infantry work together to cover each others weakness.

Watch the hickok45 video i linked if you if you want to pick off targets you actually have to aim. Your magazine/drum capacity largely limits what you can do with full auto 2 seconds in a m16 isn't exactly a lot of time to aim at multiple targets. You move into vehicle mounted stuff and the ammo supply goes up but you can still run dry quick.

 

[iChokePeople]

Full Auto VS Semi-Auto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2PFY8MNVuY

Full auto on man portable guns is usually only used for suppressive fire. Not saying a full auto gun wont kill you all the same but there is a reason full auto is almost never used by the average soldier. Full auto and semi auto support each other. Full auto pins them down semi auto picks them off. Much like how tanks and infantry work together to cover each others weakness.

Watch the hickok45 video i linked if you if you want to pick off targets you actually have to aim. Your magazine/drum capacity largely limits what you can do with full auto 2 seconds in a m16 isn't exactly a lot of time to aim at multiple targets. You move into vehicle mounted stuff and the ammo supply goes up but you can still run dry quick.

if we're talking about precision work, absolutely. If we're talking about a drive-by, walking into a mall, a crowded street, very little aiming is required. there's a reason auto weapons are effective for suppression -- it's because when you fire it, the enemy knows that they better stay behind cover or it will chew them up in a very short time. seriously, folks, the notion that a 249 will somehow not chew through a crowd of shoppers faster than a semi is ludicrous.

 

[Robjps]

if we're talking about precision work, absolutely. If we're talking about a drive-by, walking into a mall, a crowded street, very little aiming is required. there's a reason auto weapons are effective for suppression -- it's because when you fire it, the enemy knows that they better stay behind cover or it will chew them up in a very short time. seriously, folks, the notion that a 249 will somehow not chew through a crowd of shoppers faster than a semi is ludicrous.

Did you watch the video i linked. A Black Friday crowd in front of the store would be about the only time it would have an advantage even then i truly doubt you would have more casualties as you would be mostly hitting the same targets repeatedly. Your would need people densely packed without room for them to scatter.

But if that is your target firearms are a poor choice.

Anyways I'm done discussing it not because of disagreeing or anything. "I" personally don't like discussing and providing more information on how to kill people in masses. For the most part the people that do it have done a bad job and id like to keep it that way.

 

[sig-guy]

I am scared of the idea of full auto running amok out there in the hands of people that shouldn't have it.

So you run around scared all the time?
These are surely NOT the only full-auto weapons in the hands of criminals.

 

[Vigilant]

Did you watch the video i linked. A Black Friday crowd in front of the store would be about the only time it would have an advantage even then i truly doubt you would have more casualties as you would be mostly hitting the same targets repeatedly. Your would need people densely packed without room for them to scatter.

But if that is your target firearms are a poor choice.

Anyways I'm done discussing it not because of disagreeing or anything. "I" personally don't like discussing and providing more information on how to kill people in masses. For the most part the people that do it have done a bad job and id like to keep it that way.

If you've ever actually fired a 249, they are VERY accurate in short controlled bursts, and you would be remiss in thinking that even in Indy, a few of our bangers haven't actually had trigger time on one. Bangers may be dirtbags, but some of them are, or were trained dirtbags!

 

[Robjps]

If you've ever actually fired a 249, they are VERY accurate in short controlled bursts, and you would be remiss in thinking that even in Indy, a few of our bangers haven't actually had trigger time on one. Bangers may be dirtbags, but some of them are, or were trained dirtbags!

Yes i have and yea military training and military gangs is the new in thing. In my opinion you are making my point short controlled bursts is quite comparable to what you can do with with an ar15 correct? The person i was responding too seems to think its like the movies where you just twirl the gun around and everyone dies going flying backwards in a hail of bullets *a lot like "scatter gun" myths*. If you do that you will be dry in seconds and with a hit probability that looks like lottery chances.

 

[PistolBob]

1. Has the media reported the status of the missing NFA guns and accessories?
2. Has the motive been determined that they KNEW about the guns, or was this just a methhead trailer heist?
3. Are the cops looking for anyone else that may be involved? Do they have everyone rounded up yet?

I'm not much in the way of updates. Makes me wonder if they got the right guys.

 

[iChokePeople]

Yes i have and yea military training and military gangs is the new in thing. In my opinion you are making my point short controlled bursts is quite comparable to what you can do with with an ar15 correct? The person i was responding too seems to think its like the movies where you just twirl the gun around and everyone dies going flying backwards in a hail of bullets *a lot like "scatter gun" myths*. If you do that you will be dry in seconds and with a hit probability that looks like lottery chances.

 

[Disposable Heart]

So you run around scared all the time?
These are surely NOT the only full-auto weapons in the hands of criminals.

And your point is? YES, I know full auto is out there but the chances of running afoul of it in my daily life is nil. When you add a comparatively large number of the full auto weapons with a single heist in a single city, with the thieves feeling "cornered", it's a recipe for disaster...

 

[Hookeye]

Since the badguys in Indy usually shoot other badguys, I'm thinking full auto to be a kinda sorta good thing.

 

[sig-guy]

And your point is?

My only point is, there's likely more out there then either of us could imagine.

We don't do it cause it's illegal, criminals don't follow laws.

 

[churchmouse]

Since the badguys in Indy usually shoot other badguys, I'm thinking full auto to be a kinda sorta good thing.

Way too much collateral damge.Those A$$ hats hardly ever hit what they are shooting at anyway. Full auto just amplifies the stupid.

 

[indyk]