A bad thing happened in INDY!

[HoughMade]

So I find myself reading through the latest additions to this thread, still slightly amazed that people think that because in an "Oceans Eleven" style heist, any security measures can eventually be defeated, it simply doesn't matter what measures may have been taken to secure the guns in this case.

It's kind of like saying that since fatal car accidents can happen at 35mph, you might as well drive 120mph wherever you go.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Ok I'll play. 30 separate targets. I will shoot with a ar15 30 round mag. You get a full auto m16 with a thirty round mag. And let's see who scores more "kills". Ask any military personnel. Full auto is best used for suppression of an enemies position, and covering fire. It's thinking like yours is why retarded nfa laws ever came about. Whether the trailer was full of guns or pillows does not change the fact that he was a victim of a crime and in no way should face any penalty for being a victim.

Bunch those targets together, hanging out, having fun in a park, or shooting the breeze on a corner in our city and you have a problem. Combine that with people generally not knowing how to control full auto and you have alot of collateral damage, damage such as the kid sleeping in the house next to the crowd.

Let's not fool ourselves in thinking full auto in the hands of untrained people is negligible danger compared to semi-autos. The danger is increased comparatively.

We know what you are saying. Hoods do not understand enfilade fire and zones of fire, things that machinegunners understand and what a proper machinegun is for. Hoods with an M249 aren't going to understand the concept of advance under fire, zones, point vs. area targets, etc... They are going to shoot it out the side of a mini-van door. They can deploy ALOT more firepower vs. a semi auto WASR that Carl Crackhead would use for same drive by.

The North Hollywood shooting was remarkable in a few ways: brazen daylight robbery, the sheet volume of firepower leveled at the police at distances they didn't train for and the use of body armor. The volume of fire issue I would say kept the aggressors more dangerous than the body armor. Same situation here: A few AKs, M16s or a M249 would make the already brazen criminal even more so. The 20s was a symbol of this: Superior firepower and the allure of the life of crime made criminals INCREDIBLY brazen. Same today: Urban culture putting power, violence and the allure of crime on the altar and praising it.

 

[Trigger Time]

So I find myself reading through the latest additions to this thread, still slightly amazed that people think that because in an "Oceans Eleven" style heist, any security measures can eventually be defeated, it simply doesn't matter what measures may have been taken to secure the guns in this case.

It's kind of like saying that since fatal car accidents can happen at 35mph, you might as well drive 120mph wherever you go.

Most people probably keep their guns in a closet. Thousands in guns but too cheap to buy a safe. Thousand dollar gun, nc star scope.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Most people probably keep their guns in a closet. Thousands in guns but too cheap to buy a safe. Thousand dollar gun, nc star scope.

"It'll never happen to me."
"That only happens if I park my car in the bad part of town"
"My wife doesn't need to know how to shoot, I'll be there to protect her."
"I keep my gun at home, robberies only happen down town and I live in the suburbs."
"I think I swallowed a toothpick!"

 

[lovemachine]

Most people probably keep their guns in a closet. Thousands in guns but too cheap to buy a safe. Thousand dollar gun, nc star scope.

Kinda like a $600 pistol in a $20 holster

 

[HoughMade]

Kinda like a $600 pistol in a $20 holster

Why do you hate Uncle Mike?

 

[ghuns]

Why do you hate Uncle Mike?

And cousin Fobus.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

, still slightly amazed .It's kind of like saying that since fatal car accidents can happen at 35mph, you might as well drive 120mph wherever you go.

SNIP

I'm more than slightly amazed , my mind is blown .

At first I thought it was an inside / insurance job because after the first time I figured he'd learned a lesson and there was no effin way he'd leave his toys so vulnerable ever again . This is why I don't gamble because I'd lost this bet .

Those of you that think there isn't much difference in the lethality between semi and full auto , have probably not served in the Army or Marines . So I'm saying your talking out of your ass on that matter .

Here's something to ponder ( assuming the rest of the players are white as well) , suppose the SAW (or other FA) winds up in the hands of a stormfront type guy .

He decides to wait till the next Black Expo or Classic , ya know when downtown is shoulder to shoulder , then pay them a visit .

Sharpton , Jackson and everybody else would be on the first thing smokin here to scream to anyone that would listen about the " need " for gun laws reform .

Or another scenario , he decides to visit one of the rolling , roll calls . To my knowledge the officers that have been shot , have been with semi only . Imagine what one idiot could do with FA spraying into a crowd .

Then guess what happens , the rest of our collective lives gets more complicated .

Why'd it happen ? One guy decided to be a thief and another guy didn't respect his toys .

 

[Titanium_Frost]

So what did I learn on INGO today? Gun control laws WORK. They keep criminals unarmed and stupid people from getting their guns stolen. The NFA is the single best element of the war on crime because without full auto military grade hardware criminals aren't brazen enough to conduct daylight raids and shoot it out with police.

Thank God for democrats who have the fortitude to give us the laws and protections we need.

 

[SteveM4A1]

So what did I learn on INGO today? Gun control laws WORK. They keep criminals unarmed and stupid people from getting their guns stolen. The NFA is the single best element of the war on crime because without full auto military grade hardware criminals aren't brazen enough to conduct daylight raids and shoot it out with police.

Thank God for democrats who have the fortitude to give us the laws and protections we need.

Back with a sting!

 

[printcraft]

How many threads are there around here ridiculing people who buy an inexpensive gun safe at a box store?

Indiana has one very good gun safe builder that I know of. He does amazing work, but he's pretty pricey. So I am thinking about starting up my own safe building shop. Judging from this thread, there is a market out there for my product...

My safe will be much easier to move, is fully customizable and slightly less expensive than those from Indiana's top gun safe builder. PM me if interested. I will throw in a roll of duct tape for free on the first 5 orders I get.

Hey, I can get you some custom panels with your logo on em for a great price!
Any interest in a partnership?

I also has access to a wide range of custom lock styles to choose from.

 

[88GT]

Ok I'll play. 30 separate targets. I will shoot with a ar15 30 round mag. You get a full auto m16 with a thirty round mag. And let's see who scores more "kills". Ask any military personnel. Full auto is best used for suppression of an enemies position, and covering fire. It's thinking like yours is why retarded nfa laws ever came about. Whether the trailer was full of guns or pillows does not change the fact that he was a victim of a crime and in no way should face any penalty for being a victim.

How's that?

Most people probably keep their guns in a closet. Thousands in guns but too cheap to buy a safe. Thousand dollar gun, nc star scope.

If secured in a locked home isn't sufficient, then how is secured in a plywood, mobile box sufficient? You people can't have it both ways.

Those of you that think there isn't much difference in the lethality between semi and full auto , have probably not served in the Army or Marines . So I'm saying your talking out of your ass on that matter .

Well, strictly speaking there is no difference. 30 rounds fired full auto that miss won't be lethal at all. One round fired semi to the brain bucket could be instantaneously fatal. Rate of fire alone is irrelevant.

Here's something to ponder ( assuming the rest of the players are white as well) , suppose the SAW (or other FA) winds up in the hands of a stormfront type guy .

He decides to wait till the next Black Expo or Classic , ya know when downtown is shoulder to shoulder , then pay them a visit .

Sharpton , Jackson and everybody else would be on the first thing smokin here to scream to anyone that would listen about the " need " for gun laws reform .

because the guy who is willing to shoot into a crowd won't do it unless he has a full auto firearm, right? Ridiculous logic....if one can call it that.

Or another scenario , he decides to visit one of the rolling , roll calls . To my knowledge the officers that have been shot , have been with semi only . Imagine what one idiot could do with FA spraying into a crowd .

Then guess what happens , the rest of our collective lives gets more complicated .

Again with the illogical. As if the response to such an event wherein the bad guy used a semi-auto wouldn't be the same? You're making an argument for gun control.

Why'd it happen ? One guy decided to be a thief and another guy didn't respect his toys .

On this, I agree.

 

[Birds Away]

The only thing INGOers love more than guns is telling other people what guns to buy and what to do with them after they have them. What is it with all of the control freaks? I get a little tired of all the judgement and the "If you're not doing it like me then you're doing it wrong" . It's cool that everyone has their own opinion but, wow, get a grip. Opinions are great and sharing information is one thing but the my way or the highway crap is annoying as hell.

 

[SteveM4A1]

The only thing INGOers love more than guns is telling other people what guns to buy and what to do with them after they have them. What is it with all of the control freaks? I get a little tired of all the judgement and the "If you're not doing it like me then you're doing it wrong" . It's cool that everyone has their own opinion but, wow, get a grip. Opinions are great and sharing information is one thing but the my way or the highway crap is annoying as hell.

You win INGO for the day!

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

How's that?



If secured in a locked home isn't sufficient, then how is secured in a plywood, mobile box sufficient? You people can't have it both ways.


Well, strictly speaking there is no difference. 30 rounds fired full auto that miss won't be lethal at all. One round fired semi to the brain bucket could be instantaneously fatal. Rate of fire alone is irrelevant.


because the guy who is willing to shoot into a crowd won't do it unless he has a full auto firearm, right? Ridiculous logic....if one can call it that.


Again with the illogical. As if the response to such an event wherein the bad guy used a semi-auto wouldn't be the same? You're making an argument for gun control.


On this, I agree.

Lady , all this pseudo-scientific blathering about what is logical / illogical is a whole bunch of inexperienced , uninformed opinion equaling a titanic WTF FREUD ?

Automatic fire was something that came about due to the need to kill a whole bunch of people , quick fast and in a hurry . Which an LMG like a SAW is pretty freakin good at . Suppressive fire was a tactic that came about afterward .

Have you ever fired anything FA ? Have you ever been in the Army or been a Marine ?

No ? Well then " strictly speaking " your snarky opinion on a weapons lethality as it pertains to it's cyclic rate is irrelevant .

 

[ghuns]

Any interest in a partnership?

I also has access to a wide range of custom lock styles to choose from.

Have your people contact my people, we should do lunch.

 

[Vince49]

Have your people contact my people, we should do lunch.

Hey that worked for Herr Glock!

 

[asipes]

I can lockpick most of the padlocks on my property and all of my home deadbolts sometimes faster than using my keys.
It's very sad how incredibly easy it really is.

A member of the BATFE will be contacting you shortly.

 

[LarryC]

Thinking out loud here . . .

I'm still curious about the logistics. Someone had the ingenuity and means to abscond with a trailer laden with significantly heavy cargo without leaving any marks behind. Given that, would it be unreasonable to speculate that the same or similar individuals would also have the means and ingenuity to enter a building and either open or remove a safe with the same items? To wit, I offer the burglary of Elmore's quite a few years ago (in the old location).

In general, is there any way to secure property from sufficiently motivated and skilled thieves?

This makes me wonder why more gun shops, especially those with Class 3 licenses, are not burglarized more frequently. Perhaps it's less expensive and less risk-laden to purchase illicitly imported weapons?

It seems like the key in preventing or minimizing the risk of theft rests more in the motivation (or lack therof) than it does in the actual means of securing the goods.

I have read most of this posting, seems like a lot of people are blaming Profire for the theft and insisting that all of the weapons stolen are more dangerous than the Criminals now possess ~ Most of this is laughable if these people were not so serious.

Number 1: All of you that believe that ANY and EVERY criminal with killing on their mind cannot obtain firearms and / or other weapons that are as lethal or worse than those in Profires trailer are either ignorant or do not have much knowledge of the criminal life. I used to live in Northern Indiana and a few years ago a number of hand held missiles and full auto firearms were stolen from a National Guard Armory. In addition, I have seen people in possession of converted full auto firearms a few years ago. It is quite easy to convert many firearms to full auto, I certainly wouldn't do it due to the law.

The actual fact is that in reality tests have proven that in almost all cases more people can be shot in a given amount of time with a semi-auto than a full auto weapon.

The full auto option is great if you are clearing a building in war or trying to stop a frontal assault, but obviously the selector is on our military rifles for good reason. The belt fed machine gun is obviously a very dangerous weapon used in warfare, however I can not see the average criminal carrying around the firearm, belt and ammo can to a robbery or street fight! Those that might use such a weapon (terrorists), can and do have access to such firearms ~ the Mexican border is not quite secure (sarcasm implied) and the Mexican Cartels certainly have access to just about any weapon in the world ~ and would sell / provide them to terrorists.

From what information is available via the media (which I always suspect) it appears that the Profire trailer was well secured and was stolen with some fairly sophisticated equipment like a flat bed tow truck or something similar. Criminals with access to equipment like this could have just as easily cut the alarm, smashed through a wall and loaded a safe with ALL the Profire firearm fairly quickly.

It is very easy to blame someone or find fault after the fact. If we knew the future, there would be a hell of a lot less divorces and NO one would ever be robbed. But we don't, I feel sure Profire will never leave a trailer full of firearms unguarded again. I am sure they are kicking themselves for not foreseeing this problem but we are all guilty of that. (I sure wouldn't have married my first wife had I known.....)

Lighten up - Every criminal in the US can obtain a firearm if they want it bad enough to steal one. I'm sure most with nefarious intent already have one or two! Anyone that disputes that fact is really aiding and abetting the liberals who want more regulations and are trying to limit our firearms and violate our rights. As to the poster that claimed these are MILITARY GRADE arms ~ So are my Mosins, Mausers, AK's SKS's, Garands, M1 carbine, Enfield, SVD-40 and several other firearms I own. Most of my collection of the Military arms have been carried in war! However the truth is very few crimes are committed with long guns of any style.

As to securing firearms ~ NONE of us that own firearms are capable of PREVENTING a theft if a criminal is determined to obtain them. All we can do is try to make it harder to steal ours than someone else's!! Kind of like the man hunting bear who was asked if he could outrun a wounded bear, he replied "I only have to outrun my partner".

 

[Snapdragon]

Can't rep ya, Birds. I hope somebody does.