A bad thing happened in INDY!

[iChokePeople]

All we can do is try to make it harder to steal ours than someone else's!!

The actual fact is that in reality tests have proven that in almost all cases more people can be shot in a given amount of time with a semi-auto than a full auto weapon.

Cite?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Cite?

Have you ever read any of Jack Cooper's books? He used to train the guys who protected the president including the machine pistol guys. He is certainly opinionated on the subject and thinks that anything not mounted to a tri-pod should be semi-auto only because it is more effective.

 

[iChokePeople]

I've seen numerous studies on semi vs. auto, never seen ONE that said that someone (particularly in the kinds of engagements we're talking about here) could shoot more people in a given amount of time with a semi. Waste less bullets? Absolutely. But arguing that someone in a drive-by shooting, for example, could shoot more people in 10 seconds with a semi than an M249? Are you high? You'd HAVE to be to believe that. Please tell me with a straight face that you'd rather be caught in a drive by where the shooter has a 249 than one where he has a Glock, or that the police would rather have a bank robber come out fighting with a 249 than with an SKS.

ETA: Also, to be clear, I'm not taking a side in this whole "whose fault was it" argument, just getting tired of some of the ridiculous "facts" being tossed around.

 

[Disposable Heart]

If someone can furnish some studies with information, rather than names, that would dissuade me from my stance that full auto is designed to improve hit probability and due to fire rate, can hit more targets in a shorter amount of time than semi.

 

[KittySlayer]

Philo Beddoe

I used to live in Northern Indiana and a few years ago a number of hand held missiles and full auto firearms were stolen from a National Guard Armory.

Were they in the National Guard trailer?

was stolen with some fairly sophisticated equipment like a flat bed tow truck or something similar.

But we don't, I feel sure Profire will never leave a trailer full of firearms unguarded again.

And while I am on the Every Which Way But Loose theme a little message for the thieves... Right Turn Clyde!

 

[Dead Duck]

A member of the BATFE will be contacting you shortly.

That would be funny.

Hey - I'll start a thread.......................if they let me borrow a laptop.

 

[Rock River]

I went with what you provided as adequate security: door lock, hitch lock, wheel lock, thin skinned light trailer with firearm company logo on it. Apparently parked behind closed business overnight.

As I posted way back in this thread, trailer theft is common, easy, and it is widely known how to defeat everything listed above.

Any methhead tow truck driver could do it.

Should have hung it from a crane or put the bucket of his backhoe on it!

 

[Fargo]

Should have hung it from a crane or put the bucket of his backhoe on it!

I would say maybe just get up early in the morning to load that trailer the day of the event, but that's just me...

 

[sig-guy]

Were they in the National Guard trailer?

That's going to require a big, BIG rollback!

 

[LarryC]

Cite?

Hitchman / Guftason report Weekly DTIC: The Hitchman and Gustafson Reports - The Firearm Blog

"4. Current models of fully automatic hand weapons afford neither these desirable characteristics nor adequate alternatives. Such weapons are valueless from the standpoint of increasing the number of targets hit when aiming on separated man-size targets. - See more at: Weekly DTIC: The Hitchman and Gustafson Reports - The Firearm Blog"

I have seen other studies but cannot cite them right now. Basically the full auto is less effective for a couple of reasons. They are fairly obviously to anyone that has rapid fired a semi-auto rifle or handgun at a target. Muzzle rise and loss of control result in most bullets after the first shot varying widely from the target. The second fact is that the ammo in the magazine is expended before the shooter can regain control. The full auto firearm is and was always used to suppress enemy movement in war as well as very close quarter action (as when clearing a room) in combat. Certainly I don't want to be in front of either a semi or full auto weapon, but given a choice if I were in a crowd, I think I would choose the full auto firing at the crowd. As an aside, I own a SVD-40 Russian rifle - they were originally designed as a full auto firearm, soon after the release of the firearm to the troops, the rifle was found to be very ineffective as the muzzle lift was so excessive only the first shot had any effect - unless you were firing at aircraft. It was modified to be a semi-only weapon.

 

[4sarge]

I would say maybe just get up early in the morning to load that trailer the day of the event, but that's just me...

STOP with the COMMON SENSE & RESPONSIBILITY, this is 2014 & the NEW AGE of Irresponsibility

 

[Turf Doctor]

As I have NOT read all of the posts here, sure maybe a couple things could have been done differently, but it always easy to look back and say we should have done _ _ _ what ever..

Does any one know if the people stealing the trailer knew of it's contents or were they just stealing the trailer to be stealing a trailer??

Just asking..

 

[Rookie]

They had no idea what was in the trailer.

 

[PistolBob]

They had no idea what was in the trailer.

How do you know this?

 

[Dead Duck]

There was a report (some pages back) that the bad guy claimed they had no idea what was in the trailer til it was opened.

 

[Indynic]

I'm sure he didn't know

It's just coincidence he was able to sell most of the stuff so quickly. Just happened to come across a buyer interested in fully automatic weapons...

 

[Dead Duck]

I'm sure he didn't know

It's just coincidence he was able to sell most of the stuff so quickly. Just happened to come across a buyer interested in fully automatic weapons...

A "Fence" will hold most anything he thinks he'll make a profit doing.

 

[Classic]

Suspect arrested in theft of trailer of guns - TheIndyChannel.com

He said he had no idea what was in the trailer.

 

[Denny347]

Hitchman / Guftason report Weekly DTIC: The Hitchman and Gustafson Reports - The Firearm Blog

"4. Current models of fully automatic hand weapons afford neither these desirable characteristics nor adequate alternatives. Such weapons are valueless from the standpoint of increasing the number of targets hit when aiming on separated man-size targets. - See more at: Weekly DTIC: The Hitchman and Gustafson Reports - The Firearm Blog"

I have seen other studies but cannot cite them right now. Basically the full auto is less effective for a couple of reasons. They are fairly obviously to anyone that has rapid fired a semi-auto rifle or handgun at a target. Muzzle rise and loss of control result in most bullets after the first shot varying widely from the target. The second fact is that the ammo in the magazine is expended before the shooter can regain control. The full auto firearm is and was always used to suppress enemy movement in war as well as very close quarter action (as when clearing a room) in combat. Certainly I don't want to be in front of either a semi or full auto weapon, but given a choice if I were in a crowd, I think I would choose the full auto firing at the crowd. As an aside, I own a SVD-40 Russian rifle - they were originally designed as a full auto firearm, soon after the release of the firearm to the troops, the rifle was found to be very ineffective as the muzzle lift was so excessive only the first shot had any effect - unless you were firing at aircraft. It was modified to be a semi-only weapon.

I've fired an M14 on full auto. Talk about bracing for the muzzle climb. Full auto, that thing is about useless. Fun...but useless.

 

[iChokePeople]

Hitchman / Guftason report Weekly DTIC: The Hitchman and Gustafson Reports - The Firearm Blog

"4. Current models of fully automatic hand weapons afford neither these desirable characteristics nor adequate alternatives. Such weapons are valueless from the standpoint of increasing the number of targets hit when aiming on separated man-size targets. - See more at: Weekly DTIC: The Hitchman and Gustafson Reports - The Firearm Blog"

I have seen other studies but cannot cite them right now. Basically the full auto is less effective for a couple of reasons. They are fairly obviously to anyone that has rapid fired a semi-auto rifle or handgun at a target. Muzzle rise and loss of control result in most bullets after the first shot varying widely from the target. The second fact is that the ammo in the magazine is expended before the shooter can regain control. The full auto firearm is and was always used to suppress enemy movement in war as well as very close quarter action (as when clearing a room) in combat. Certainly I don't want to be in front of either a semi or full auto weapon, but given a choice if I were in a crowd, I think I would choose the full auto firing at the crowd. As an aside, I own a SVD-40 Russian rifle - they were originally designed as a full auto firearm, soon after the release of the firearm to the troops, the rifle was found to be very ineffective as the muzzle lift was so excessive only the first shot had any effect - unless you were firing at aircraft. It was modified to be a semi-only weapon.

The point in 4 is only valid in certain situations -- it bears no resemblance to a drive-by shooting or a group indiscriminately spraying rounds into a crowd or opening fire in a crowd. As to the "to anyone [who] has fired"... Oh, my. I humped a 60 and a 249 for years. I'm pretty comfortable with their capabilities and characteristics. Muzzle rise and difficulty in controlling them are greatly overstated. Don't know enough about the svd, to ill take your word for that one. An untrained guy with a 249 could mow down a crowd in seconds. For anyone who actually knows the 249, that's a scary weapon to have in the wrong hands.

ETA: For those who don't actually know the 249, here's an example of the crazy, uncontrollable muzzle rise:

[video=youtube;2OZJ5icm5i4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OZJ5icm5i4[/video]