1st graders can be transgendered?

[IndyDave1776]

Those papers are also 20+ years old, and would be considered to be largely outdated science in the community.

In that case, I would like to enter a challenge against gravity. After all, the law of gravity is 426 years old so it must be far more irrelevant than the aforementioned research.

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

May well be, but imposing one freak on the rest of the children (or in this case, the girls who are using the 'facilities') is unacceptable. The staff offered more compromise that I would have endorsed, and this little boy and his parents should be thankful for that.

Hey now, choose your words more carefully. God loves his children the same, so "freak" is a bit harsh, and straight up uncalled for.

The way I look at this, is it is TOTALLY being pushed by the parents, NOT the child. I can remember doing feminine things as a child, because i saw my mother doing them, I didn't know better back then until i was set straight. I can see a situation where this child was doing feminine things because he saw "mommy" doing them, and the parents freaked out and thought he would prefer to be a "she"

There is NO scenario in my head where this child was able to sit his parents down and explain how he REALLY feels. He's six for corn's sake. The parents saw a trend in him, and pushed that trend, instead of setting the young boy straight

 

[Dead Duck]

Simple:

1. If it stands to pee, boys room.
2. If it squats to pee, girls room.

Except that I knew a few girls growing up that could stand and aim better than I could. And yes they had innies.

Whether or not the kid really is transgendered obviously won't be known until the child is much older, but I see nothing wrong with it. The kid acts, walks, and talks like a girl. She believes she's a girl, so there shouldn't be influence on the other kids because they won't know the difference. They aren't running around naked together in school, use closed bathroom stalls, and she's clearly not running around saying she's a boy. So, without parental involvement, there's no way the other kids would know.

I can defiantly see that you're a girl.

At my school, we didn't run around naked, at least not all the time, but there were enough times that I got to peek in a few skirts even at that innocent age. Playing "Tag", (with Cootie spray) I have "pants" my share of girly girls. Meaning to and not.


If someone sees a girl sportin a weener, word is getting out and fair or not, life at that school would be over for them.




On a different note -
I've been know to take a bubble bath a time or two and sometimes I even make my own sammich.

Should I be worried?

Yes - I have an Outy.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Hey now, choose your words more carefully. God loves his children the same, so "freak" is a bit harsh, and straight up uncalled for.

The way I look at this, is it is TOTALLY being pushed by the parents, NOT the child. I can remember doing feminine things as a child, because i saw my mother doing them, I didn't know better back then until i was set straight. I can see a situation where this child was doing feminine things because he saw "mommy" doing them, and the parents freaked out and thought he would prefer to be a "she"

There is NO scenario in my head where this child was able to sit his parents down and explain how he REALLY feels. He's six for corn's sake. The parents saw a trend in him, and pushed that trend, instead of setting the young boy straight

Perhaps harsh, but I am getting sick and tired of the majority being expected to bend over backwards for behaviorally-defined minorities. I can live with people making their own decisions about how they live their lives with the following caveats:

1. If someone wishes to profess to be a gender other than what they physically are, they are entitled to their own thoughts and mode of dress. They do not have a right to expect me to join their delusional fantasies or to accept them. They do not have a right to expect me to accept them as being something other than they are (case in point, it will be a cold day in Hell I will refer to anything with a dick as 'she' or 'her'). Actions have consequences and I will not graciously tolerate the attempt to impose this nonsense on others, including and especially me.

2. In the cases in which this has become an issue in schools, the schools by and large have graciously offered the single-user staff restrooms to the confused. Delusional fantasies do not justify the few imposing themselves on the rest of us in the john.

3. Liberty is the freedom to do with yourself as you choose, not the freedom to impose your choices on others. It amazes me how those who scream the loudest have no problem with imposing on others so long as it conforms to their idea of right and proper.

 

[Degtyaryov]

Perhaps harsh, but I am getting sick and tired of the majority being expected to bend over backwards for behaviorally-defined minorities. I can live with people making their own decisions about how they live their lives with the following caveats:

1. If someone wishes to profess to be a gender other than what they physically are, they are entitled to their own thoughts and mode of dress. They do not have a right to expect me to join their delusional fantasies or to accept them. They do not have a right to expect me to accept them as being something other than they are (case in point, it will be a cold day in Hell I will refer to anything with a dick as 'she' or 'her'). Actions have consequences and I will not graciously tolerate the attempt to impose this nonsense on others, including and especially me.

2. In the cases in which this has become an issue in schools, the schools by and large have graciously offered the single-user staff restrooms to the confused. Delusional fantasies do not justify the few imposing themselves on the rest of us in the john.

3. Liberty is the freedom to do with yourself as you choose, not the freedom to impose your choices on others. It amazes me how those who scream the loudest have no problem with imposing on others so long as it conforms to their idea of right and proper.

Indeed. The issue with transgender folks doesn't stem from them being oppressed in any way; they're perfectly free to dress, change their name, or undergo whatever surgeries they want. The problem comes when they try and force society to adapt to their internal feelings. I wonder how accepting these people would be if a "transethnic" white guy suddenly started identifying as black, demanding affirmative action, and expecting society to treat him the same as an actual black man.

 

[edporch]

I mean this question constructively.

If an individual is born an anatomically correct male or female (internally and externally),
why isn't it a delusion for them to believe they're actually the opposite gender "trapped" in the wrong body?

And why shouldn't a person like this be helped in the same way we would help anybody who suffers from a delusion of ANY other type?

 

[LPMan59]

I am really reminded of the scene from Life of Brian where the People's Front of Judea are arguing about Eric Idle's right to have babies despite being born without a womb- which is nobody's fault; not even the Romans.

 

[LPMan59]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

 

[Liberty1911]

Indeed. The issue with transgender folks doesn't stem from them being oppressed in any way; they're perfectly free to dress, change their name, or undergo whatever surgeries they want. The problem comes when they try and force society to adapt to their internal feelings. I wonder how accepting these people would be if a "transethnic" white guy suddenly started identifying as black, demanding affirmative action, and expecting society to treat him the same as an actual black man.

Interesting. Interesting....

 

[SOCOM242]

I think the idea is...it isn't a decision. Some people are just born different. Why would somebody choose to be gay? Or transgendered? So they can be bashed, become an outcast from their family, and have an overall more stressful quality of life?

Like I said in another thread, these arguments are getting pretty old and tired. The sad truth is, our sick and dying culture has made abhorrent lifestyle choices "normal". As such, no one is "becoming an outcast", not in this country, not now. Besides, the old argument that homosexual choices are genetic are patently false. Sorry, but being "gay" isn't the same as being born a particular race or sex; these comparisons are made for no other reason than to try and engender sympathy based on what sometimes happened to these minorities in the past.

Putting dresses on your young son, and encouraging him to continue doing so, is perverse.

 

[steveh_131]

We know that children can be born with the genitalia of both sexes.

We know that children can be born with ambiguous genitalia.

What gender do we label them? What if we get it wrong, and they develop more feminine personality traits than masculine?

Knowing that all of this is documented, is it absurd to think that children can be born with the genitalia of one sex but develop the personality traits of the opposite?

 

[traderdan]

I admired my Dad.He was strong,hardworking,kind,(Unless we misbehaved) and my Mother was a lady who did not demean him and dispute his every decision...I grew up to be a man,not as good a man as he was,but not confused as to my job as provider,protector,leader of my family.THIS is why we need strong families with man and wife.

 

[SOCOM242]

We know that children can be born with the genitalia of both sexes.

We know that children can be born with ambiguous genitalia.

What gender do we label them? What if we get it wrong, and they develop more feminine personality traits than masculine?

Knowing that all of this is documented, is it absurd to think that children can be born with the genitalia of one sex but develop the personality traits of the opposite?

I think a lot of people are missing the true crux of this thread.

This discussion is not about whether some poor kid is malformed and has messed-up genitalia; the discussion is about liberal, hipster parents dressing their son up like a girl TO MAKE A POINT and to cause trouble.

 

[JoshuaW]

The transgender question really bothers me. A few weeks ago I would have probably said that she should use the boys, gender neutral, or nurses bathroom, just like the school. I would have probably even argued that the parents were in someway pushing this on the kid, and they should let the kid choose for them-self when they are old enough to grasp the severity of their decision.

Like I said, a few weeks ago. What changed? Well, I just found out my best friend has always self identified as a woman, and she has recently started hormone therapy. It is a really difficult concept to grasp, because frankly, it is weird. What I have come to accept though is that this is a legitimate thing that people can feel. Furthermore, it is something that people can feel or "know" when they are very young. According to my friend, who would have absolutely no reason to exaggerate or be dishonest with me, she has ALWAYS known. Apparently there has always been a certain disconnect to her body, and she felt trapped in a body that she doesnt feel is hers.

I think it also important to add that this friend never cross-dressed, never acted or exposed her gender identity issue until she was a teen and eventually "came out" to her parents. So her feelings have absolutely nothing to do with having been dressed as a girl or being exposed to cross gender behavior while growing up. In fact, her parents were horrified that their son identified as a girl.

As far as the parents allowing their child to identify this early, it is a tricky situation, but I think they should allow the child to identify how they want. I think there should be a LOT of therapy, but ideally if this is how the kid feels, and their mental health professional agrees, they could start hormone therapy right before puberty, which would make the transition process much easier. I dont agree with giving a 5 or 6 year hormone therapy, but I think they should be allowed to identify how they choose, and the parents should help them. Once they are older they may change their self identity, they may not, but they should be allowed the choice.

 

[steveh_131]

I think a lot of people are missing the true crux of this thread.

This discussion is not about whether some poor kid is malformed and has messed-up genitalia; the discussion is about liberal, hipster parents dressing their son up like a girl TO MAKE A POINT and to cause trouble.

That could be exactly what's happening. Their hunger for media attention certainly makes it likely. I said that earlier, I wasn't missing it.

That said...what would you say to a child or young adult who really did feel this way? If the genetics can be screwed up enough to cause both types of genitalia to be present, isn't it perfectly possible that they can be screwed up enough to cause the person's gender identity to be confused as well? What, then?

 

[ultra...good]

When somebody demands acceptance, they have already taken the stand that they are different and or something is wrong with them.
If that was not the case, why would I have to accept them? You want to be accepted? Well, shut the hell up and fit in. You want to cause problems? Demand that people accept you.

All of my fellow firearm enthusiasts do not demand acceptance from me. There are many differences among us. Some believe this, others believe that. Not once have I seen someone demand acceptance here on the forum, at a range, or in a gunshop or show. Never a demand for acceptance. I try to learn from the differences that we have because it is very possible that someone knows a better way then I do.

Now these parents that are demanding that their child be able to do this, or that because he is special, just wait until that kid and his peers hit their teen years. That kid will more then likely be the target of so much abuse. And that is nobodies fault except for the parents. They are to blame for all of this. They are the ones that brought it to the media. Not the other way around.

 

[traderdan]

I strongly disagree with this. Lifestyles are absolutely contagious and young learn a tremendous amount from their parents be they human or animal. If your parents have purple hair and Daddy dresses up like a girl it will absolutely influence a child.

Human beings are easily influenced and children wish to please their parents. If little Johnny sees that putting on a dress makes mommy very happy he'll want to do it again, regardless of whether or not it feels right or natural to him. After awhile it becomes normal. Little Johnny never had a chance and it is mommy's fault. I refuse to accept it as normal. It isn't.

Most will not accept the truth in this post...But it is still true.

 

[JoshuaW]

I think a lot of people are missing the true crux of this thread.

This discussion is not about whether some poor kid is malformed and has messed-up genitalia; the discussion is about liberal, hipster parents dressing their son up like a girl TO MAKE A POINT and to cause trouble.

How can you even know that? It is entirely possible that the child does indeed identify as a girl, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The parents dont have to be liberal, or young, or "hipster". And why would they want to stir up trouble? Do you think they would RATHER have a child that is different?

Maybe, just maybe, they are trying to do what they think is best for their child, and are asking the school to respect their decision.

Why is it that people will assert that they should be allowed to make their own decisions with the government interfering in their life, yet they will ***** and moan about it when someone else does the same? The parents want it this way, it should not be an issue in the school. The kid is wearing girls clothes, looks fairly feminine, and has all of their legal documents identifying her as a girl.

Look at it this way, wouldnt seeing someone in girls clothes be more disruptive in the boys bathroom?

 

[LPMan59]

 

[HARVEYtheDAMNED]

As long as the other children are comfortable with this child using the restroom with them, then why not?

I don't believe Gender is as subjective as most liberals think it is, but really this is almost a non-issue. If the kid wants to be a girl, and the parents say its ok, then so be it. Either the kid will grow out of it, or "she" won't, and if this child reaches adult age and still feels this way, then it just means the parents had legitimate motives.