1911 suggestions

[halfmileharry]

Glock is whining

Fixed it.

 

[VERT]

They are pushing for Smith work I believe.

I don't have money for new guns but I can always afford more 1911 parts.

 

[88E30M50]

1911 owners can become a bit snobbish as they climb the ladder of quality. I think that they lose sight of the fact that a plain jane, simple 1911 is an incredibly reliable gun. Keep the specs on the loose side, just as they were built for the government and the gun will run. I love high end 1911s, but I don't suffer from the tendency to look down on anything lower than I can afford. Any well built 1911, if kept clean and lubed, and if run with quality mags and quality ammo, will run very reliably. Anyone that thinks that you need a $4000 1911 to be safe for carry is either selling guns or has lost sight of what a 1911 really is.

 

[cedartop]

1911 owners can become a bit snobbish as they climb the ladder of quality. I think that they lose sight of the fact that a plain jane, simple 1911 is an incredibly reliable gun. Keep the specs on the loose side, just as they were built for the government and the gun will run. I love high end 1911s, but I don't suffer from the tendency to look down on anything lower than I can afford. Any well built 1911, if kept clean and lubed, and if run with quality mags and quality ammo, will run very reliably. Anyone that thinks that you need a $4000 1911 to be safe for carry is either selling guns or has lost sight of what a 1911 really is.

I am by no means a 1911 expert, but that doesn't jive with what I have personally experienced, and what I have seen in many classes. In my case I should have known better than to buy a Ruger. I am thinking Colt or SA should be the absolute floor.

 

[88E30M50]

I'd agree with that. I'm not saying that an island gun is all that is ever needed, just that you don't need to spend $4k to get reliability. I'm quite happy to carry a DW CCO and would have no problem trusting a CZ 1911 too.

 

[churchmouse]

In the real world that we all live in needing a gun that will run 500 rounds in less than a day is just not realistic.
Statistics (yeah, the "Stat" word) will show that a real world gun fight never reaches anywhere near those levels.
Show me any stat where a citizen ran through even 4 mags (8 or 18 no matter) and I will humbly apologize but seriously, What is a good number to put on any platform before it gets the seal of approval.

 

[Rebel Jack]

My better half and I are going through this same dilemma at the moment, same price range but a different set of needs. I just received my CCW a few weeks back and she'll have hers within a month or so, but the Glocks we own (3rd and 4th gen 17s) don't lend themselves well to concealed carry. To fat. She's swinging for a Commander piece so she can customize it. Figures if she's not using it all the time, it better be nice to look at. So she says Commanders. I say Fully heat treated slides. Maybe Something along Remington, Springfield or Kimber (she REALLY digs the two-tone Kimber Commanders)? I don't know that I care whether it's a series 70 or 80. I'll have to have a thorough going through of this thread.

 

[Thegeek]

1911 owners can become a bit snobbish . . . . .

And that's the only reason I fanned the flames a bit. I have a nice 1911 and it performs well. I have a couple issues with it. One I created and the other should be easy to fix. I have a magazine issue and the ambi-safety I put in creeps a little and will prevent it from firing if I bump it. Any make/model can have a problem. It's just the folks who fall in love with one that create the issue. My daily carry is a G19. No safety to fumble with, good capacity, feels good to me, and because it's so damn popular, there are some options for left handed holsters. Will I carry my 1911, sure. But, the Glock fanboys can suck it too. If I could find a holster I liked, I'd prefer to carry my old Ruger P95. In truth, the only reason I got the Glock was because I wanted to conceal better (and that isn't happening with a 5" 1911"). Just use the tool that suits you best and stop having an opinion on what suits someone else. Honestly, I just get some jollies kicking someone's personal love affair with a specific model or brand.

 

[lovemachine]

[video=youtube_share;n9U-U-6aG8U]http://youtu.be/n9U-U-6aG8U[/video]

 

[88E30M50]

In the real world that we all live in needing a gun that will run 500 rounds in less than a day is just not realistic.
Statistics (yeah, the "Stat" word) will show that a real world gun fight never reaches anywhere near those levels.
Show me any stat where a citizen ran through even 4 mags (8 or 18 no matter) and I will humbly apologize but seriously, What is a good number to put on any platform before it gets the seal of approval.

That's a question I'd love to see discussed. Running a gun hard until it fails will tell you what the weak points are, but is it an indicator of how safe it is to carry? Kimber Ultra's get a lot of grief for failing to run past 200 rounds in classes without cleaning and lube. Does that peg the gun at the low end of 1911 reliability? Possibly it does. But, does it mean you cannot trust one to put 8 rounds in an attacker when carried clean and lubed? I don't think it does mean that. Testing to failure is a good thing but it does not really have a large bearing on whether or not the gun will function when needed.

I'm not trying to make a case for carrying a cheap 1911. Not in any way shape for form. I think Ken Hackathorn put it well when he said that if you can afford a $3000-$4000 1911, then great. He also said that if you cannot, then buy a good one and have someone qualified do the mods needed to bring it up to snuff, then that's great also. In either case, commit to the platform and learn everything about it before carrying it.

But, back to CM's question: What does constitute a proper vetting of a firearm for carry? Maybe MAC's testing on the Military Arms Channel is closer to what we need in terms of testing. He's doing a good job of finding the weaknesses in firearms. Who knew that a Glock could fail just by being dropped in a puddle. Or that a high end Sig does not like sand. I am fearfully waiting for him to test a couple of 1911s. That would be interesting.

 

[lovemachine]

.

 

[lovemachine]

Messed up. Never mind.

 

[repeter1977]

In the real world that we all live in needing a gun that will run 500 rounds in less than a day is just not realistic.
Statistics (yeah, the "Stat" word) will show that a real world gun fight never reaches anywhere near those levels.
Show me any stat where a citizen ran through even 4 mags (8 or 18 no matter) and I will humbly apologize but seriously, What is a good number to put on any platform before it gets the seal of approval.

I agree with this as well. I always laughed when high round schools would say about pistols failing after 1000 rounds without cleaning, and I'm thinking to myself, who legitimately carries 200 pistol rounds on their body in the states. Talk about sucky tactics, if you need a thousand rounds of pistol, you've picked the worst firefight, you should have brought back up, and your tactics suck.

 

[Thegeek]

I think it has more to do with the risk of failure than actual round counts. If your pistol fails 1 in 100 rounds, there's a 1% chance your next trigger pull will result in failure. 1 in 1000 rounds, it's 0.1%. At the end of the day, we all want to be confident that if we have to draw the gun will run to empty.

 

[churchmouse]

I think it has more to do with the risk of failure than actual round counts. If your pistol fails 1 in 100 rounds, there's a 1% chance your next trigger pull will result in failure. 1 in 1000 rounds, it's 0.1%. At the end of the day, we all want to be confident that if we have to draw the gun will run to empty.

1 in 100 is an average from things I have seen. Ammo/mag/limp wrist/etc could cause this.

Lately when we do some range time I seldom get 100 through any given pistol as I may have 6 or 8 with me and share with friends/family.
I recently had a 1911 that was a failure waiting to be used. It took some effort but it is running now. Out of spec MilSpec. Every one makes a on occasion even Glock/Sig and others.
My last outing we ran 550 rounds through 7 pistols. No failures of any kind. Several mag dumps in that mix.

 

[Thegeek]

Personal experience:
My DW Valor 1911 - probably 500 rounds has yet to make it through 100 rounds without some sort of issue.
My Gen4 Glock 19 - probably pushing 1500 rounds. I've had it not go into battery 3-5 times and a stove pipe or two.
My P95 - probably around 5000 rounds (since 1999). at least 2 failures to extract, a couple bad primers or light strikes (didn't fire after 3 trigger pulls), and maybe 3 failure to feed.

As far as reliability goes, the Ruger has proven itself. The Glock hasn't done too bad either. The 1911.... still working out the kinks. I think most of which are magazine related now. The first 100 were a nightmare though.

 

[rvb]

1 in 100 is an average from things I have seen.

Are you saying on average you see 1 failure every 100 rounds???

you're ok with that?

no wonder he looks so sad.......

-rvb

 

[churchmouse]

Are you saying on average you see 1 failure every 100 rounds???

you're ok with that?

no wonder he looks so sad.......

-rvb

No no no.......just from what folks have said and what I have seen.
A lot is due to what I listed and the real killer....Lack of maint.

 

[rvb]

No no no.......

whew.

A well built 1911 using non-junk mags should just work and work. just like a glock, only less brass to the face.

the real killer....Lack of maint.

maintenance? what's that?????

-rvb

 

[BE Mike]

One thing the Glock has going for it is there aren't many badly made magazines out there. The 1911 is another story. Another thing is (as has been said) the original 1911 had loose tolerances. When you start changing the metal, tightening up the slide to frame fit, barrel to slide fit, barrel to bushing fit, then add a trigger with a stop, installing a barrel with a tight match chamber, ambi-safety, lighten the trigger pull, etc., etc.; if it isn't made just right, malfunctions are bound to happen.