17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[churchmouse]

I only brought up the 911 conversation to give perspective about how a conversation may have went with Martin. Did Martin view that conversation as a threat to his safety?

Point taken. Just saying as a person who has approached those who are acting strangely or out of place. These conversations for the most part easily become heated. Folks get defensive and things get heated. It is never an easy deal. Just saying.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

There are no witnesses that saw the fight begin or actually saw the gunshot that I can remember reading about. If you've read the 911 transcript, he was cursing to the operator before he'd ever made verbal contact with Martin unless there was a prior conversation with Martin that he didn't mention in the 911 call.

I haven't listened to the actual 911 audio but I've read the transcripts a couple times. I'm not an academy award winning actress but it reads to me that Zimmerman was pretty amped up while talking and cursing to the 911 operator. So if a conversation did take place, do you think Zimmerman was inviting him to the ice cream social that evening?

Yes there was. The first witness is George Zimmerman. The second is Forensic Science. We know from all reports that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and severe gash in the back of his head consistent with being punched in the nose and having his head banged on concrete.

There have been no reports of wounds of any sort on Martin consistent with Zimmerman fighting back, other than the gunshots that terminated the assault.

The fact there is only one living witness, while tragic, is a likely outcome of punching an armed man in the face, breaking his nose, and slamming his head on concrete. Everything else is crap.

 

[churchmouse]

Yes there was. The first witness is George Zimmerman. The second is Forensic Science. We know from all reports that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and severe gash in the back of his head consistent with being punched in the nose and having his head banged on concrete.

There have been no reports of wounds of any sort on Martin consistent with Zimmerman fighting back, other than the gunshots that terminated the assault.

The fact there is only one living witness, while tragic, is a likely outcome of punching an armed man in the face, breaking his nose, and slamming his head on concrete. Everything else is crap.

That sums up my feelings and understanding of this mess. Too many jumped this horse and steered it off course to suit their agendas.

 

[jbombelli]

Yes there was. The first witness is George Zimmerman. The second is Forensic Science. We know from all reports that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and severe gash in the back of his head consistent with being punched in the nose and having his head banged on concrete.

There have been no reports of wounds of any sort on Martin consistent with Zimmerman fighting back, other than the gunshots that terminated the assault.

The fact there is only one living witness, while tragic, is a likely outcome of punching an armed man in the face, breaking his nose, and slamming his head on concrete. Everything else is crap.

Exactly.

 

[dross]

There are no witnesses that saw the fight begin or actually saw the gunshot that I can remember reading about. If you've read the 911 transcript, he was cursing to the operator before he'd ever made verbal contact with Martin unless there was a prior conversation with Martin that he didn't mention in the 911 call.

I haven't listened to the actual 911 audio but I've read the transcripts a couple times. I'm not an academy award winning actress but it reads to me that Zimmerman was pretty amped up while talking and cursing to the 911 operator. So if a conversation did take place, do you think Zimmerman was inviting him to the ice cream social that evening?

He may have been amped up. And we may never have more than Zimmerman's story to go on about how the fight started.

Even if Zimmerman spoke to him rudely, that doesn't change things.

If all we have to go on is Zimmerman's story, we have to go on that, even if we don't believe him. Our doubt about his story isn't evidence. His account of what happened IS evidence.

Conjecture goes both ways. I haven't engaged in much of it here, but if I were, I could invent some scenarios.

For instance, what was Martin doing there in a gated community where he didn't live? Was he visiting someone? How are gated communities structured there? Was Martin trespassing? That changes things a bit. In my mind, that allows a much higher level of challenge.

Maybe Martin was up to no good. Maybe Zimmerman's suspicions were right on. Maybe Martin hated white people. Maybe he had been there before when he was casing the place and someone had challenged him, and he came back that night with the intention of kicking some butt if someone challenged him.

Maybe he said something racial to Zimmerman.

All of this is just speculation. I haven't heard much speculation that was to Zimmerman's benefit, only to Martin's.

I think speculation is okay, but defending your speculation is stupid or stubborn. And speculation should go both ways.

One more time: A person has the right to walk down the street. Another person has the right to confront him, as long as force or the threat of force isn't used.

Who started the fight? We may never know, and if we don't, we'll have to go with Zimmerman's version of events, unless he can be shown to be a person who can't be relied on to tell the truth, and even then that's not enough to deprive him of life or liberty.

I'll point out again, I don't know about Florida, but in my state of Colorado, even if I start the fight, I can still use deadly force later if I've stopped my aggression, indicated my intent to no longer fight, and the other person continues to attack me and I feel afraid of being killed or maimed.

One more time: We have no evidence, none, nada, that indicates Zimmerman didn't a single illegal act. We have some evidence that Martin initiated force and/or that he continued using force when Zimmerman wasn't a threat, or was no longer a threat.

I just don't see how we can blame Zimmerman yet, based on what we actually know.

 

[griffin]

Yes there was. The first witness is George Zimmerman. The second is Forensic Science. We know from all reports that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and severe gash in the back of his head consistent with being punched in the nose and having his head banged on concrete.

There have been no reports of wounds of any sort on Martin consistent with Zimmerman fighting back, other than the gunshots that terminated the assault.

The fact there is only one living witness, while tragic, is a likely outcome of punching an armed man in the face, breaking his nose, and slamming his head on concrete. Everything else is crap.

 

[CarmelHP]

Oh boy...just the kind of asshat injection this situation needs...

Armed Neo-Nazis Now Patrolling Sanford, Say They Are "Prepared" For Post-Trayvon Martin Violence - Miami News - Riptide 2.0

You could probably fit all the neo-Nazis "patrolling Sanford" in a telephone booth and have space to spare.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkkXHjQSyEI[/ame]

 

[Hotdoger]

,

Yes there was. The first witness is George Zimmerman. The second is Forensic Science. We know from all reports that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and severe gash in the back of his head consistent with being punched in the nose and having his head banged on concrete.

There have been no reports of wounds of any sort on Martin consistent with Zimmerman fighting back, other than the gunshots that terminated the assault.

The fact there is only one living witness, while tragic, is a likely outcome of punching an armed man in the face, breaking his nose, and slamming his head on concrete. Everything else is crap.

ACTUALLY there was another eyewitness that was interviewed that night.

 

[semperfi211]

While watching the Cubs today I just found out where he is hiding.

 

[level.eleven]

It turns out the Neo-Nazi patrols were a hoax. Imagine that.

» Sanford (FL) Police deny any indication of neo-Nazis patrolling - Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion

 

[Lex Concord]

It turns out the Neo-Nazi patrols were a hoax. Imagine that.

» Sanford (FL) Police deny any indication of neo-Nazis patrolling - Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion

How can that be? It was linked from Drudge

 

[HICKMAN]

How can that be? It was linked from Drudge

and still is

 

[griffin]

Black Male Guns Down “White Hispanic” With Mental Capacity of 12-Year-Old, No Arrests, MSM Disinterested

Black Male Guns Down “White Hispanic” With Mental Capacity of 12-Year-Old, National Media Curiously Disinterested | Jammie Wearing Fools

 

[blamecharles]

Everyone needs to be emailing, calling and writing your representatives and asking something be done about this blatant lying by the media. If they have time to investigate baseball and steroids they can investigate that.

 

[Fargo]

Everyone needs to be emailing, calling and writing your representatives and asking something be done about this blatant lying by the media. If they have time to investigate baseball and steroids they can investigate that.

It isn't a "time" issue. There is no "freedom of baseball" or "freedom of steriods" in the Constitution. However, there is freedom of the press. You really don't want governmental prior restraint on the press.

That said, intentional falsification could be actionable after the fact.

Best,

Joe

 

[KG1]

The way certain media intentionally have falsified information in this instance when they know that there is a hotbed racial element to it for some people to exploit is dangerous and reckless and IMO comes close to fueling or inciting mob action.

 

[printcraft]

My God! This case has caused racial animosity amongst black people directed against whites all due to Obama and the media trying to stir up problems for the express purpose of trying to enrage the public to get votes and enact more change of America to a more socialist country. Also, the way that the police handled the situation could have been better. Zimmerman has been stereotyped as a white vigilante by the media and his protection of the community caused him these problem. This incident has been used to stir up a lot of anger and rage by the media and obama and that dastardly duo of rev. sharpton and rev. jackson (the just-us brothers) against a lot of innocent white people that have nothing to do with this event and provoking the black community to go on the attack against "injustice" -_- And Obama is a race baiter. He is trying to get the black vote for his next election and making this case bigger on the news causing more of an issue to distract from his utter failings as a president. **** Obama.. I am going to Vote for Ron Paul this year.

FTFH

Huh? What? Uh, come again?

Im just as confused

HTH

 

[blamecharles]

It isn't a "time" issue. There is no "freedom of baseball" or "freedom of steriods" in the Constitution. However, there is freedom of the press. You really don't want governmental prior restraint on the press.

That said, intentional falsification could be actionable after the fact.

Best,

Joe

I agree that it is a 1st amendment right, although it wouldn't go anywhere simply because the media is doing what it is told I'm sure.

 

[cosermann]

I apologize for not reading the previous 175 pages (), but on this whole 17-yr-old "kid" thing - it wasn't all that long ago that such so-called "kids" were putting to sea and doing the work of men, getting married, etc.

Just one such example, Horatio Nelson, started his naval career at age 12.

 

[CarmelHP]

Trayvon Martin shooting: no grand jury for Zimmerman | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

Both sides seem to want to claim it as favorable to themselves.