17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Roadie]

Pffft, just have McGee and Abby work it over in the lab. Geez, do I have to do all the thinking around here?

I would love to work it over with Abby in the lab..

 

[hornadylnl]

It will help frame the timeline for the jury. The receipt/video tells us whether or not M was there, and if so, at what time.

There is zero evidence so far that Martin commited any crime that warranted Zimmerman's attention. I don't see how receipt/video can help or harm Martin or Zimmerman.

 

[bingley]

There is zero evidence so far that Martin commited any crime that warranted Zimmerman's attention. I don't see how receipt/video can help or harm Martin or Zimmerman.

Dale, you miss the point. We want the 7-11 video of Martin in the store because we want to see whether he looks like the type we're afraid of: young black males in a hoodie.

 

[hornadylnl]

Dale, you miss the point. We want the 7-11 video of Martin in the store because we want to see whether he looks like the type we're afraid of: young black males in a hoodie.

I have yet to figure out how Martin looks so intimidating in his recent photos that have been posted on here.

So what if it comes out that he really went to a hot chick's house on the other side of the neighborhood and she gave him the tea and skittles? The only reason skittles is such an issue in this case is because Martin was unarmed. I have no doubt in my mind that Jesse and Al think that Martin never touched Zimmerman and was simply gunned down for being black. I don't believe that is the case at all.

 

[Bond 281]

There is zero evidence so far that Martin commited any crime that warranted Zimmerman's attention. I don't see how receipt/video can help or harm Martin or Zimmerman.

According to what I've read, Martin was walking in between houses and not on the street or sidewalk, and looking around as though he might be 'casing' houses to rob. Given the rash of break ins the subdivision had been recently having, Zimmerman probably had cause to think that Martin might not be kosher. This is the job of the neighborhood watch. To watch for shady looking people they don't know and call the police. And the point of the lack of video is that if he wasn't going to 7-11 like he was supposedly, then he lied about where he was going. This means nothing in and of itself, but just adds another element that suggests that maybe this kid (who apparently has a history of crime) was indeed a suspicious looking character. Do you at least acknowledge that this might be the case? I mean I'll admit that maybe he didn't look suspicious, and Zimmerman overreacted. However, you should admit that it's entirely possible that Martin was exhibiting suspicious behavior that caused Zimmerman to take note of him.

You may have your story of getting followed by a creep, but I've got mine of getting carjacked, beaten, and shot by black teenagers. Frankly, I will NEVER second guess someone's being suspicious of urban looking youth.

 

[hornadylnl]

Sure, it's a possibility he was up to no good. I've not seen any proof that he was. I personally would not get involved in a situation unless I saw a crime in progress. My livelihood is not worth risking on someone who "might" be committing a crime. If there was evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin while he was committing a crime, this thread probably wouldn't exist. As it stands, about the only thing that can fully exonerate Zimmerman is if the forensics bear out his story.

ETA: Regarding the criminal case, Zimmerman has zero responsibility of proving his innocence. It's fully up to the state to prove his guilt.

 

[Bond 281]

Sure, it's a possibility he was up to no good. I've not seen any proof that he was. I personally would not get involved in a situation unless I saw a crime in progress. My livelihood is not worth risking on someone who "might" be committing a crime. If there was evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin while he was committing a crime, this thread probably wouldn't exist. As it stands, about the only thing that can fully exonerate Zimmerman is if the forensics bear out his story.

ETA: Regarding the criminal case, Zimmerman has zero responsibility of proving his innocence. It's fully up to the state to prove his guilt.

Oh I probably wouldn't either. I guess the thing about this whole situation is that Zimmerman said the guy looked shady, but there's no way to prove it. Or prove he wasn't. As far as I can tell every bit of forensics and witness testimony corroborates, or at least doesn't go against, everything Zimmerman said. However, given the personal details disclosed about Zimmerman and Martin, I'm personally inclined to think that Zimmerman was in the right in his actions. He evidently took his neighborhood watch job seriously. While not my cup of tea, I don't fault him for that. At any rate, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it wasn't how Zimmerman said it was, and I can't see how they would prosecute him for anything.

 

[CountryBoy1981]

apparent you do not know what TiVO is...

How many people TiVo live sports? If you are a real sports fan, you do not TiVo it, you can't, it is not the same thing as watching it live.

 

[CountryBoy1981]

According to what I've read, Martin was walking in between houses and not on the street or sidewalk, and looking around as though he might be 'casing' houses to rob. Given the rash of break ins the subdivision had been recently having, Zimmerman probably had cause to think that Martin might not be kosher. This is the job of the neighborhood watch. To watch for shady looking people they don't know and call the police. And the point of the lack of video is that if he wasn't going to 7-11 like he was supposedly, then he lied about where he was going. This means nothing in and of itself, but just adds another element that suggests that maybe this kid (who apparently has a history of crime) was indeed a suspicious looking character. Do you at least acknowledge that this might be the case? I mean I'll admit that maybe he didn't look suspicious, and Zimmerman overreacted. However, you should admit that it's entirely possible that Martin was exhibiting suspicious behavior that caused Zimmerman to take note of him.

You may have your story of getting followed by a creep, but I've got mine of getting carjacked, beaten, and shot by black teenagers. Frankly, I will NEVER second guess someone's being suspicious of urban looking youth.

Hence forth the following of Martin and the comment about them always getting away on the 911 tape. After having numerous break-ins and a person who appears to be casing houses, wouldn't you not want to let this person get away?

I don't know the history, but from what it appears to me is that there have been numerous break-ins and the people have been getting away with it. He called the police & the 911 operator told him not to follow. Zimmerman did not believe the police would get there before this kid got away.

 

[dross]

You live in an area that has seen a lot of recent crime. You decide to take action to prevent it. You can take defensive action, lock your doors, keep outside lights fixed, etc... You can also take more active action, short of initiating force.

You can, while staying perfectly in your rights:

Keep an eye on someone in your neighborhood that you don't know.
Approach someone you don't know and ask them what they're doing there.
Tell the person that you don't want him around and you'd like him to move along.
Tell him you think he looks suspicious and you wish he'd leave.
Ask him if he lives around there.
Tell him you don't like his kind of people in your neighborhood.
Say, "If you don't leave, I'm going to call the police."
Follow him around at a reasonable distance, say 100 ft, and watch everything he does.

I'm not saying these are good things to do, or nice things, or that any of them show good judgment. They are also not illegal, and well within libertarian philosophy. You have not initiated force.

Now, if you run at the guy, or put your hands on him, or make sudden movements close to him, or make threatening gestures, or maybe even berate him too aggressively, that's another story.

Just as there's no law that Martin couldn't be there, there's no law that Zimmerman couldn't make contact with him or even be rude to him. He just can't initiate force.

And, even if he does initiate force, the law at least in my state is that I could start a fight with you, then retreat and indicate that I wish to end the confrontation, and if you chase me down and I fear for my life, I'm still legal to use deadly force.

Again, I'm not saying any of this is the right thing to do, or the smart thing, but we're talking about crimes here. Being a jerk isn't a crime.

 

[radonc73]

How many people TiVo live sports? If you are a real sports fan, you do not TiVo it, you can't, it is not the same thing as watching it live.

I do it all the time. Pause it if you have to run to the crapper/ get something to eat then you can also skip the commercials and you really catchup in no time, esp football and baseball.

 

[hornadylnl]

I do it all the time. Pause it if you have to run to the crapper/ get something to eat then you can also skip the commercials and you really catchup in no time, esp football and baseball.

If you tivo'd a baseball game, you could probably watch all of the action in 15 minutes.

Sorry, back to our thread.

 

[griffin]

Didn't the Martin family call some people with political clout to get this case moving forward?

Not exactly. After three weeks the investigation was complete. They didn't like the results, so then called in Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

 

[griffin]

How many people TiVo live sports? If you are a real sports fan, you do not TiVo it, you can't, it is not the same thing as watching it live.

I've read in a couple of places that the game didn't actually begin until 8pm, 45 minutes after Tray was shot. I don't follow basketball so I don't know. But since ultimately it didn't make any difference I never pursued it.

Does anyone know what time the game actually started that night?

 

[buckwacker]

Sure, it's a possibility he was up to no good. I've not seen any proof that he was. I personally would not get involved in a situation unless I saw a crime in progress. My livelihood is not worth risking on someone who "might" be committing a crime.

Sure, you should wait till they actually kill your kid, or steal your car, or kick in your front door, or whaterever else they looked like they were about to do. You know, because you cant be 100% sure thats what they were going do.

Me? I am going to let someone who I think is acting suspiciously know that they are being watched. That may be all the deterrent that is needed.

 

[churchmouse]

Sure, you should wait till they actually kill your kid, or steal your car, or kick in your front door, or whaterever else they looked like they were about to do. You know, because you cant be 100% sure thats what they were going do.

Me? I am going to let someone who I think is acting suspiciously know that they are being watched. That may be all the deterrent that is needed.

Putting suspicious folks in the light usually makes them move along. Apparently it did not work for Mr. Martin.

 

[sonny27]

.

 

[Effingham]

Pffft, just have McGee and Abby work it over in the lab. Geez, do I have to do all the thinking around here?

I'd sure like to share my DNA with Abby.

(I'm sorry. I'm a bad, bad man.)

 

[HICKMAN]

so LaRaza sided with Jesse/Al because Zimmerman wasn't "hispanic" enough.

Guess someone forgot to tell these guys:

7 California boys arrested in attack on teen

 

[Roadie]

I'll just leave this here..