17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[KG1]

Who knew a Kel-Tec PF9 was an assault weapon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZchggr0a14

Real assault weapon there. As far as i'm aware there was only one shot fired.

Jesse and Al Sharpton have their agendas. Even this former chapter head in the NAACP knows what their game is and has the guts to call it like it is.

Trayvon Martin | Jesse Jackson | Al Sharpton | The Daily Caller

 

[MangoTango]

His mom trademarked his name.

Mother Seeks Trayvon Martin Trademarks | The Smoking Gun

That is one.... greedy ....

something.

If this is true this is disgusting! If my child had been killed this would be the last thing I would be doing. My goodness I wouldn't be able to functions for a year and I deal with death and dying in my work all the time. But my own kid being killed!

 

[lucky4034]

No, why don't you get it directly from the Sanford Police Department like I do. They tell a different story than the media, and the SPD states than the media's sequence of events is "pure speculation" (their words).

You mean like the entire 911 transcript I linked? Or the official police record... or quoted witnesses?

I'm not quoting any article writers opinions here... there is an established timeline of discussion/calls/witnessed events to go by....

I'm not the one on here trying to post about the kids 10 day marijuana suspension, or some facebook photos that have him wearing gold teeth.... Nor am I on here posting about Zimmerman's past record or his family and neighbors opinion of him.

I'm posting what happened..... and from the documents I'm reading, its hard to convince me that Zimmerman didn't WAY overstep his boundaries and put himself in a position where he felt he should pull his pistol and shoot the kid.

He poked and poked and poked and poked a bear that wasn't doing anything wrong. A bear that was trying to escape his antagonizer and when he finally had the bear cornered, the bear bit him and he shot him for it.

He picked a fight and lost, so he pulled his gun and killed Martin and used self defense to justify his actions.

All of this... "he could have been lying in the bushes waiting for Z to get out of the car" or "he could pulled Z from the car" is nonsense.

As for him not being arrested? That is what the law was designed to do isn't it? Its just a shame that some fool exposed a hole in it at the expense of a young life. On the surface, to the police officer on the scene, it probably looked pretty cut and dry. He new that Z had made a call about a "suspicious person probably on drugs and acting crazy"... afterall that was what he was expecting to see when he got there. Then he arrives and sees Z (the neighborhood watchmen who made the "distress" call) with a broken nose telling him he shot the kid in self defense after he "screamed for help". Invariably, there was the other witness who only seen Martin on top of Z, saying that Z shot him in self defense. Afterall, no one knew the kid only lived 2 blocks away because to Z... he was a "stranger" who as far as he knew, didn't belong in the neighborhood.

On the surface it would have looked like a closed case.... Until you put all the pieces together.Until you learn that the kid actually had every right to be there... until you learn that he didn't have a gun on his wasteband, but rather some skittles. When you learn he was only supposed to be gone for 20min to make a quick trip to the gas station or that he was only 17yo and was talking on the phone to his GF about how he was being followed and he didn't know if he should run or not.


Once the prosecution builds its case (and it is building it RIGHT NOW) he WILL be arrested and when he sits in front of a jury and details come out the jury will need to determine if he was justified in pulling the trigger.... and while its debatable on whether or not pulling the trigger was acceptable, I have no doubt that in some way they will hold him responsible for the kids death.

Martin is dead because Zimmerman overstepped his responsibilities as a licensed gun owner, that I am certain about, and unfortunately we may all pay the price for his stupidity.

 

[sonofagun]

Once the prosecution builds its case (and it is building it RIGHT NOW) he WILL be arrested...

Unfortunately, you are right.

When Zimmerman is found justified in defending himself under Florida law, the Feds will step in and charge him with violating Trayvon's civil rights because Zimmerman is "White" and Trayvon is black.

I don't see how one can defend oneself against a racism charge in our current environment.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Totally agree. He would have shot anyone. And quite frankly probably any teen he didn't recognize in the neighborhood with the recent crime spree. Black, white or hispanic.

I don't know about anyone else on this forum, but if somebody, ANYBODY, was bouncing my head off a sidewalk after knocking me down with a punch to the face, I might consider that my life was in danger as well. And if it happened at 0200, I'd really be scared. Folks may note that a single shot was fired to the chest of the decedent; not a whole magazine full.

Personal Lessons Learned:

Lesson 1: Don't pick fights with strangers at 0200 if you aren't armed.

Lesson 2: Don't assume that the A**hole you're beating up doesn't have a gun.

Lesson 3: If you've just gotta beat that A**hole, you'd better be SURE he can't get to his gun.

Lesson 4: DON'T pick fights with strangers at 0200.


NOTE: I don't know what gave me the impression that this incident occurred at 0200 instead of 1930. Everything else still holds true.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I don't know about anyone else on this forum, but if somebody, ANYBODY, was bouncing my head off a sidewalk after knocking me down with a punch to the face, I might consider that my life was in danger as well. And if it happened at 0200, I'd really be scared. Folks may note that a single shot was fired to the chest of the decedent; not a whole magazine full.

Personal Lessons Learned:

Lesson 1: Don't pick fights with strangers at 0200 if you aren't armed.

Lesson 2: Don't assume that the A**hole you're beating up doesn't have a gun.

Lesson 3: If you've just gotta beat that A**hole, you'd better be SURE he can't get to his gun.

Lesson 4: DON'T pick fights with strangers at 0200.

Tried to rep ya. Nicely stated.

 

[Cemetery-man]

as far as the presidents comments , i think he should have kept his opinions to him self because as president he does not have a personal opinion , he is the commander and chief of this once great country and should understand the consequences of his opinion .

Easy. It's an election year with an unpopular president trying to get every vote he can muster to survive. I'm sure this was discussed in great detail with his election committee before he went public.

 

[Fargo]

I don't know about anyone else on this forum, but if somebody, ANYBODY, was bouncing my head off a sidewalk after knocking me down with a punch to the face, I might consider that my life was in danger as well. And if it happened at 0200, I'd really be scared. Folks may note that a single shot was fired to the chest of the decedent; not a whole magazine full.

Yeah, but at least in Indiana if the reason you are getting your head bounced off the sidewalk is because you followed and started a fight with the guy, it doesn't matter if you feel "your life was in danger". You don't have a right to self defense at that point and if you shoot him, you are likely going to prison. See IC 35-41-3-2(e).

It is just an occupational hazard of starting fights.

Joe

 

[griffin]

On the surface it would have looked like a closed case.... Until you put all the pieces together.Until you learn that the kid actually had every right to be there... until you learn that he didn't have a gun on his wasteband, but rather some skittles. When you learn he was only supposed to be gone for 20min to make a quick trip to the gas station or that he was only 17yo and was talking on the phone to his GF about how he was being followed and he didn't know if he should run or not.

Until you learn that Tray was the one who came up behind Zimmerman as Zimmerman was returning to his truck, threatened him, and then attacked him physically.

The lead prosecutor appointed by the state has already admitted it will be hard to make a case against Zimmerman.

The Florida prosecutor chosen to investigate the Trayvon Martin case told ABC News that convicting his killer, George Zimmerman, may not be easy.

"The stand-your-ground law is one portion of justifiable use of deadly force," veteran prosecutor Angela Corey said. "And what that means is that the state must go forward and be able to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt... So it makes the case in general more difficult than a normal criminal case."

The law affords people substantial leeway to use deadly force if they feel their life is seriously endangered.

The "correct" sequence of events that we are reading about now are a result of a leak in the Sanford Police Department, they think. The Sanford Police are now confirming these new allegations against Tray.

In response to the recent article in the Orlando Sentinel, the information was not provided to the media through an authorized source at the Sanford Police Department, but possibly by a leak from within the department. The information in the article is consistent with the information provided to the State Attorney's office by the police department.

Tray is dead because he walked up behind Zimmerman and attacked him. Zimmerman never attacked Tray.

 

[Fargo]

Until you learn that Tray was the one who came up behind Zimmerman as Zimmerman was returning to his truck, threatened him, and then attacked him physically.

Says the shooter's self-serving statement and nothing else.

The lead prosecutor appointed by the state has already admitted it will be hard to make a case against Zimmerman.

Yeah, absolutely as the only other witness to the start of the fight happens to be dead.

The "correct" sequence of events that we are reading about now are a result of a leak in the Sanford Police Department, they think. The Sanford Police are now confirming these new allegations against Tray.

I really like the use of "quotation marks" there. It says everything.

Tray is dead because he walked up behind Zimmerman and attacked him. Zimmerman never attacked Tray.

Egads, I'd love to have your crystal ball of all-knowingness. It must be nice.

BTW, nothing in your post in any way alters or even challenges the truth of my post you quoted.

Joe

 

[Bunnykid68]

Says the shooter's self-serving statement and nothing else.



Yeah, absolutely as the only other witness to the start of the fight happens to be dead.



I really like the use of "quotation marks" there. It says everything.




Egads, I'd love to have your crystal ball of all-knowingness. It must be nice.

BTW, nothing in your post in any way alters or even challenges the truth of my post you quoted.

Joe

I have always said if you ever have to fire your gun there should only be one witness....YOU.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

In reviewing all of this I am wondering a point: Is this a police department fail?

I don't mean the officers involved, or the investigation itself, or the 911 handling, but rather the somewhat slow release of information in an extremely fast paced media culture.

Before anyone gets in an uproar this is NOT an attack, but rather me thinking and pondering out loud.

I have slightly flipflopped my opinion and view. I overall think that I have no real clue as to what happened in critical moments that will decide the fate of this case, but it seems to me had more of the information been forthcoming in a more timely manner then perhaps I may have never been able to form an emotional predisposition regarding this tragic event.

OR, is the media moving too fast for anyone to be able to keep up? I know it is all the fashion to bash the media (and I often do) but I am left wondering about this issue as well.

All media outlets know they have a very juicy story of the week that can sell millions of dollars of advertising and are running around to be the "first" to scoop any bit of information on this story. Is the problem just the nature of the beast with media?

Or perhaps it is just a combination of all above: A police department caught unawares of the maelstrom they and the media were being swept up in and now everyone is riding the tiger afraid to jump off for fear of being eaten?

Regards,

Doug

 

[churchmouse]

Know what's funny though... by your comments it's obvious that you're white. It's called stereotyping. It may be possible that if that young man were white, no one in that community would have considered him
'suspicious'. But a black young man walking down a sidewalk in a mostly all-white neighborhood is suspicious just because he is black. Race is a major factor in this case and must be considered.

Do you live in a mixed area. Have you had issue with a group of youths that are not of your ethnicity. It does not automatically mean black but possibly Hispanic. Understand that my grandchild is mixed and son in law is black. I am as un-ratialy biased as you will allow me to be. I have been into it with some of the young black males that wonder from the apartments in the area, most are not living in the houses but they wonder about. No issue with that at all until they say something out of line to my wife or daughter. It has happened. They get foul and mean very quickly until they see I will not back down and have even had these fools go get some friends to pick it up again. Wrong thing to do. My son in law will be right there and hates the actions the take. There have been a few fist fights and discussions with the police. I never have these problems with the white kids around here. I have with the black kids. They can do and go as they wish but is you call their actions they go right to the disrespect card. Not all but most. It is the world we live in. Race will always be a factor if we let it.

Edit...not targeting you at all, just making a point.

 

[griffin]

I'd love to have your crystal ball of all-knowingness.

It is the result of the three week police investigation that was turned over to the State's Attorney. Nothing crystal ball about it. In fact, just the opposite.

 

[Fargo]

To All,

In reviewing all of this I am wondering a point: Is this a police department fail?

Yes, but I think in a different sense than you propose. From what I've seen SPD did a pretty mediocre investigation at the outset which is what led in no small part to this thing blowing up.

1. You do tox on the dead kid with skittles, but don't do it on the live shooter who brought a gun into a confrontation he sought out.

2. You apparently start tampering with witnesses by "correcting" them.

3. You miss multiple witnesses, including the person the dead guy was on the phone with as well as a person who saw the end of the fight. They appear not through the police investigation but by coming out themselves.

4. You either don't determine or don't release what, if any, injuries beyond the gunshot the dead kid had.

5. You do a **** poor job of even trying to make yourselves look competent and get removed from the investigation and your chief gets canned over it.

I'm surprised the feddies aren't looking at the SPD for civil rights charges with as hard as they appear to have worked to muck this up.

It is the result of the three week police investigation that was turned over to the State's Attorney. Nothing crystal ball about it. In fact, just the opposite.

Yeah, sure based upon once again solely the self-serving statements of the shooter as included in the stellar investigation reflected above... There is no assumptions or presumptions or bias there.

You should call down to the various federal and state agencies that are still conducting their investigations and let them know they are wasting their time... The police department that has been removed from the case clearly did a bang up job.


Joe

 

[Bunnykid68]

To All,

In reviewing all of this I am wondering a point: Is this a police department fail?

I don't mean the officers involved, or the investigation itself, or the 911 handling, but rather the somewhat slow release of information in an extremely fast paced media culture.

Before anyone gets in an uproar this is NOT an attack, but rather me thinking and pondering out loud.

I have slightly flipflopped my opinion and view. I overall think that I have no real clue as to what happened in critical moments that will decide the fate of this case, but it seems to me had more of the information been forthcoming in a more timely manner then perhaps I may have never been able to form an emotional predisposition regarding this tragic event.

OR, is the media moving too fast for anyone to be able to keep up? I know it is all the fashion to bash the media (and I often do) but I am left wondering about this issue as well.

All media outlets know they have a very juicy story of the week that can sell millions of dollars of advertising and are running around to be the "first" to scoop any bit of information on this story. Is the problem just the nature of the beast with media?

Or perhaps it is just a combination of all above: A police department caught unawares of the maelstrom they and the media were being swept up in and now everyone is riding the tiger afraid to jump off for fear of being eaten?

Regards,

Doug

The part in red. It was no big deal until the media started spinning like a childrens tale that you forgot all the words too.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Zim's head was repeated bounced off a sidewalk? That one is tough to swallow. One "bounce" typically renders a person unconscious. Several, and you will experience legit head trauma, lacerations only? Doubt it. It makes more sense it he got punched in the nose, fell down, and cut the back of his head.

...and the placement of the shoot concerns me as well. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman, and he had to pull from the hip, why swing a firearm all the around to target the chest? The side and abdomen are much quicker and easier places to target, when on is on top of you.

I guess anything is possible though

 

[Roadie]

Just saw a New Black Panther party leader on CNN saying that they are not subject to the "white man's laws" that they have "their own laws" and they will "see justice for Trayvon"...

 

[griffin]

...and the placement of the shoot concerns me as well. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman, and he had to pull from the hip, why swing a firearm all the around to target the chest? The side and abdomen are much quicker and easier places to target, when on is on top of you.

Not when Tray was fighting him for his gun as the police affirmed in one report. It would be in the middle, not on the side.

 

[cobber]

Even this former chapter head in the NAACP knows what their game is and has the guts to call it like it is.

Trayvon Martin | Jesse Jackson | Al Sharpton | The Daily Caller

Good for him! Exactly right on.