17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[BigMatt]

Before the shooting Z was still a overweight out of shape middlle aged man, and T was a 17yo who appeared to be very lean and fit. How many of you old out of shape guys can run down a 17yo who has already run out of your sight? Im sure there are some but I have no reason to believe that Z would be on that list


I remember what I could do at 17 and I know what I can do now in my 50's. I still hit the gym very regularly and am in great shape for my age but I wouldn't dream for a second that I could run down a teenager who had already run out of sight when I was walking.

Z was 28 - not middleaged.

I am not saying he could have run T down, but I am just trying to keep the facts straight.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The transcripts of he 911 call is there for all who wish to read it, have you?

On the transcripts Z stated he had lost sight of T as he had run away. Do you believe that he was lying over the phone and was already making up his elaborate ruse so he could justifibly shoot T?

If you believe that T had run away do you believe that the middle aged overweight man had run down the fit 17yo to start the fight?

Unless you are discounting the validity of the 911 transcript how do you explain how the 2 of them became close enough for the physical conflict to occur if Z is the one who started it?

Zimmerman said he was running. Martin's female friend says he asked Martin if he was running, and he said no. So there are a number of things can take from this. If Martin was a "thug," what thug runs away, rather than trying to be hard, and pimp-walking away at a slow pace? If Martin was running, then why? Was illustrating the universal sign of retreat, by trying to escape from a stranger following in an SUV?

And from the pictures of Zimmerman from that night, it's difficult to say that he was out of shape. He actually looked quite fit.

 

[jbombelli]

I don't recall if this was posted previously, but it's worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c

 

[Butch627]

Zimmerman said he was running. Martin's female friend says he asked Martin if he was running, and he said no. So there are a number of things can take from this. If Martin was a "thug," what thug runs away, rather than trying to be hard, and pimp-walking away at a slow pace? If Martin was running, then why? Was illustrating the universal sign of retreat, by trying to escape from a stranger following in an SUV?

And from the pictures of Zimmerman from that night, it's difficult to say that he was out of shape. He actually looked quite fit.

I think you acting like kind of a troll, I asked you a couple of questions in very plain language and rather than answer them you are going off on tangents unrelated to the post of mine you quoted.

Do you think Z was lying when Z was walking and he said on the 911 transcript that T had run away and was out of sight?

If you think he was lying than why? and please give us your version of what you think was really happening?

If you believe that Z was telling the truth to the operator than how do you explain how Z was able to start the physical part of the conflict?

If you think he looked quite fit, than do you believe Z was capable of outrunning T?

I will be glad ro respond to the questions you just asked if you respond to the ones I previously asked.

 

[KG1]

I think you acting like kind of a troll, I asked you a couple of questions in very plain language and rather than answer them you are going off on tangents unrelated to the post of mine you quoted.

Do you think Z was lying when Z was walking and he said on the 911 transcript that T had run away and was out of sight?

If you think he was lying than why? and please give us your version of what you think was really happening?

If you believe that Z was telling the truth to the operator than how do you explain how Z was able to start the physical part of the conflict?

If you think he looked quite fit, than do you believe Z was capable of outrunning T?

I will be glad ro respond to the questions you just asked if you respond to the ones I previously asked.

Be careful. He's trying to turn you into a puppet.

 

[jamil]

I think you acting like kind of a troll, I asked you a couple of questions in very plain language and rather than answer them you are going off on tangents unrelated to the post of mine you quoted.

Do you think Z was lying when Z was walking and he said on the 911 transcript that T had run away and was out of sight?

If you think he was lying than why? and please give us your version of what you think was really happening?

If you believe that Z was telling the truth to the operator than how do you explain how Z was able to start the physical part of the conflict?

If you think he looked quite fit, than do you believe Z was capable of outrunning T?

I will be glad ro respond to the questions you just asked if you respond to the ones I previously asked.

Be careful. He's trying to turn you into a puppet.

I've also read somewhere that he does it to annoy.

 

[armedindy]

I remember being 17 and being ready to fight the world.....young men (between 15 and 21) are capable and prone to plenty of violence......what happened here doesnt suprise me..and i would not defend Trayvon in a sense that he "was just going through that phase" violence is violence..and if, as a young man, you beget violence on others (regardless of how young and innocent you are) you should be well aware that victims may bite back...ive seen time and time again, where they DONT...but sometimes they do....i think Trayvon got unlucky this time....and he payed the ultimate price for it...even if he had the potential to be a reasonable person in later life, he made a fatal mistake, and teenagers all over the nation must be aware that their actions may not only land them in jail, but they may infact be the end of them....which is sad no matter what view you take

 

[jamil]

I don't recall if this was posted previously, but it's worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c

I haven't seen that video yet. Thanks for posting it.

So far the state hasn't presented anything that seriously challenges this narrative. If the state had a valid reason to charge Zimmerman, they better start showing it.

 

[Landon]

After following along and listening to the live feed while working this week, I am beginning to wonder if the defense will even call any witnesses of their own. The states' witnesses so far have pretty much been right in line with everything George Zimmerman told the police happened in the onsite visit the day after the incident. Unless the state presents further facts of 2nd degree murder, I don't see how the jury and convict without reasonable doubt.

 

[churchmouse]

The transcripts of he 911 call is there for all who wish to read it, have you?

On the transcripts Z stated he had lost sight of T as he had run away. Do you believe that he was lying over the phone and was already making up his elaborate ruse so he could justifibly shoot T?

If you believe that T had run away do you believe that the middle aged overweight man had run down the fit 17yo to start the fight?

Unless you are discounting the validity of the 911 transcript how do you explain how the 2 of them became close enough for the physical conflict to occur if Z is the one who started it?

"T" doubled back on him of course.

Our fearless OP is keeping this alive and shooting for a record. It is his thread by the way.
He has contradicted himself a lot to stir up the debate and good on him. I have re-thought my position on this and stand firm.

 

[jamil]

After following along and listening to the live feed while working this week, I am beginning to wonder if the defense will even call any witnesses of their own. The states' witnesses so far have pretty much been right in line with everything George Zimmerman told the police happened in the onsite visit the day after the incident. Unless the state presents further facts of 2nd degree murder, I don't see how the jury and convict without reasonable doubt.

Remember the OJ trial? Pop culture handed down an unjust verdict.

Look at what pop culture thinks of this case. Pop culture so infused with political correctness that it believes Zimmerman is a white racist and that he gunned down Martin because of it. Never mind the fact that Z is brown. Never mind that his best friend is black. Pop culture is so afraid of being thought of as racist that they're willing to ignore facts to remain politically correct.

I'd be surprised if they managed to find six jurors who care more about the truth than about how pop culture will see them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I think you acting like kind of a troll, I asked you a couple of questions in very plain language and rather than answer them you are going off on tangents unrelated to the post of mine you quoted.

Do you think Z was lying when Z was walking and he said on the 911 transcript that T had run away and was out of sight?

If you think he was lying than why? and please give us your version of what you think was really happening?

If you believe that Z was telling the truth to the operator than how do you explain how Z was able to start the physical part of the conflict?

If you think he looked quite fit, than do you believe Z was capable of outrunning T?

I will be glad ro respond to the questions you just asked if you respond to the ones I previously asked.

What do I think happened? Heck I have no idea what happened. Everybody's conjecturing as to what happened and the only two people that knew, were Zimmerman and Martin. Martin is dead, so we only get Zimmerman's side of the story... A story which makes sense if he told it in the most beneficial way for him.

It very well could have happened exactly the way Zimmerman said, but it could also happened very differently. Little things like there being no blood on the sidewalk where his head was bashed, or how he spread out Martin's arms away from his body; yet when police seperated the two Martins hands were underneath him, I find interesting.

Everyone seems to believe Zimmerman hook, line, and sinker finding no fault in his actions, and unwilling to believe any other possibilities.
Hell, Martin may have turned around and confronted Zimmerman, and punched him. OR Zimmerman may have punched/pushed Martin first. Nobody was there to see it start... So who is to say "which" party started the physical confrontation?

I'm simply breaking away from universal "conservative" opinion, whose adherents "dream" being caught up in a SHTF, Flash Mob, Civil Unrest, or BE so they can "protect" themselves from "zombies" or "urban youths" and stating a opinion from the other perspective.

If Martin threw the first punch, Zimmerman deserves to be acquitted. If Zimmerman threw the first punch, them he should be convicted. It's as simple as that. NOBODY knows who did, so no one really say jack concerning the unfolding of the event. Zimmerman should escape a murder conviction based on that alone.

To answer your questions directly:
I don't know if Z was lying (do you?)
I don't know if he was telling the truth to the operator (do you?)
Z looked fit by comparison to most Americans, but I doubt he could have outrun a 158 pound kid.

 

[jbombelli]

What do I think happened? Heck I have no idea what happened ...

Zimmerman's life as he knew it is over. His best bet is to write a book, or sell the rights to his story, hand over 75% of the profits to Martin's family, and go into hiding. And while I don't think he is guilty of murder, I think he is guilty of manslaughter.

For someone who has "no idea what happened..." you're sure quick to say someone is guilty. Aren't you?

 

[Hookeye]

It would amaze many if they saw how violent/fast and strong some 15 yr old kids are.
Or if they got a glimpse into what those kids were thinking.

Many will continue their lives of violent crime after given a clean slate. The system hides many, and with that a lot of them think they're untouchable, and do more stuff, and usually of worse type.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It very well could have happened exactly the way Zimmerman said, but it could also happened very differently.

Is that so?

Ok, what if it were Officer Jorge Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin?

Yeaaaahhhh, Skippy, that word changes everything don't it?

Someone save this for the next police action shooting!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Is that so?

Ok, what if it were Officer Jorge Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin?

Yeaaaahhhh, Skippy, that word changes everything don't it?

Someone save this for the next police action shooting!

Why would an officer be following rather than immediately approaching to talk to that person? If that officer is too meek to confront a person upon first encounter, then he shouldn't be in LE.

But that's a different scenario entirely. Had an officer been slow rolling behind a member of INGO, simply staring at him, there'd be a police harassment thread.

But since we're playing the "switch it up game," what if Trayvon, was "Tracy," a 17 year old blonde haired blue-eyed HS school senior? How would the public react if Zimmerman was following her, and she ended up dead in the back yard? Maybe instead of a punch, she OC'd Zimmerman, and began putting her Krav classes to good use. I'm sure his goose would be cooked.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Why would an officer be following rather than immediately approaching to talk to that person?

What if it was Godzilla and he knew Wing Chun?

What if, what if, what if, what if . . .

Police officers follow people all the time before they pull someone over or approach another to talk to them. I've got file cabinets full of those police reports . . . maybe the officers are all lying and they are not waiting?

Don't know, tell me, are the officers lying in their police reports?

But that's a different scenario entirely.

No, same scenario, only difference is that you would be on Officer Zimmerman's side.

what if Trayvon, was "Tracy," a 17 year old blonde haired blue-eyed HS school senior? How would the public react if Zimmerman was following her, and she ended up dead in the back yard? Maybe instead of a punch, she OC'd Zimmerman, and began putting her Krav classes to good use. I'm sure his goose would be cooked.

Officer Zimmerman would prevail here as well.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What if it was Godzilla and he knew Wing Chun?

What if, what if, what if, what if . . .

Police officers follow people all the time before they pull someone over or approach another to talk to them. I've got file cabinets full of those police reports . . . maybe the officers are all lying and they are not waiting?

Don't know, tell me, are the officers lying in their police reports?



No, same scenario, only difference is that you would be on Officer Zimmerman's side.



Officer Zimmerman would prevail here as well.

You started the "what if" game, so I simply played along. Obviously, police follow to observe behavior, and if the behavior is unacceptable, they "legally" stop them. If the behavior is legal, then LE will simply move on, or pursue a "voluntary," interaction, after identifying themselves.

In the file cabinets with those reports, I would bet there's an indication of the reasons why those persons were followed, no? I would also bet, and this is the crux, that persons being followed were unaware that police were tailing them.

Unless of course these officers observe behavior of people who are aware if their presence... Which of course, isn't very smart.

 

[KG1]

The problem I see is that a "what if scenario" is being presented as being just as plausible to what the evidence up to this point in the trial leads to.

IMO nothing so far that I've seen presented directly disputes in a meaningful way Z's accounting, with evidence to corroborate of what happened.

 

[churchmouse]

The problem I see is that a "what if scenario" is being presented as being just as plausible to what the evidence up to this point in the trial leads to.

IMO nothing so far that I've seen presented directly disputes in a meaningful way Z's accounting, with evidence to corroborate of what happened.

Well, of course we have the "Wet" grass testimony heard over a cell phone.